Question - 14c & 15c Pouches

Making, Pictures, Queries, Resources

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
WhiteWolf
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Churchdown, Gloucestershire

Question - 14c & 15c Pouches

Postby WhiteWolf » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:26 pm

Is there any evidence of belt pouches being made from anything other than leather.

We have some skins and I was thinking about using some to make up a belt pouch. But if there is no evidence of this I will use it for other stuff.

Cheers

WW 8)
Andy



tonw
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: yorkshire
Contact:

Postby tonw » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:30 pm

what kind of skins?

Skins have a leather back but whats the point? you'd have a fluffy pouch and sporrens aren't overly medieval

you can have fabric money pouches make from anything really wool/linen/felt

I would personally use the skins for something else depending on the size you could use them as a bed :D


--
You are never too old to storm a bouncy castle!

Don't poke angry people!!

User avatar
WhiteWolf
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Churchdown, Gloucestershire

Postby WhiteWolf » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:35 pm

Cheers for that

They're rabbit, till i can get something bigger.

So it would be a very ickle bed :wink:

Will find another use for them.

Cheers again

Andy 8)



User avatar
gregory23b
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:46 pm
Location: Gyppeswyk, Suffolk

Postby gregory23b » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:21 pm

WW - yers 15th C clothing and accessories were pretty finely wrought, leather or cloth for pouches, decent cloth etc. Rabbits not all that common so I have been told, although considering how quick they breed....

Steer clear of the chrome tanned leathers, they are the orrible plasticy ones, talk to the various purveyors of leather here, Steve Stocker and Tod Stuff, both excellent chaps and willing to help.

Likewise with cloth try and get hold of a sampler which gives you a good idea of what colour to match, so even if it is a modern dye it will at least look right. If you have a particular colour in mind you may find it useful to acquire some sample bits.

Sounds all a bit laborious but it int and it will save you money as you wont be in the position of 'oh no my outfit is just too bright, I must update it oh no all that money" etc

It can be quite fun checking out the necessary stuff.

OT - but no nos are
teak or mahogany salad bowls, salad bowls full stop, anything that look sliek it has come from habitat or indonesia is likely to have done.

loads of nonsense hanging from the belt, get a bag - easy to sew and ahem. therapeutic (yeah right I hear al the stitch-ophobes)

You got a group yet btw?


middle english dictionary

Isabela on G23b "...somehow more approachable in real life"

http://medievalcolours.blogspot.com

"I know my place." Alice the Huswyf

User avatar
Chickun
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Location: Suffolk

Postby Chickun » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:40 pm

I have just read that a medieval warrener's lodge has been opened to the pubes in Suffolk; it was under the control of Bury St Eds Abbey, and essentially is a squat cottage with walls up to 1m thick. Sits in the middle of several warrens and manages the "production" of rabbits for fur/meat.

http://www.buryfreepress.co.uk/ViewArti ... ID=1047777

Think, don't quote, that it'd be reasonalbe to do some lining (collars/cuffs) with rabbit skin, and if you have a foot you can use it to polish jewelry with :) as mentioned in Alexander Neckham's 12th C description of goldsmith's work.



User avatar
WhiteWolf
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Churchdown, Gloucestershire

Postby WhiteWolf » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:01 pm

gregory23b wrote:WW - yers 15th C clothing and accessories were pretty finely wrought, leather or cloth for pouches, decent cloth etc. Rabbits not all that common so I have been told, although considering how quick they breed....

You got a group yet btw?


Cheers

Yeah we have been accepted into Milwr Morganwg.

So we are on that very steep learning curve thingy and don't want to fall off :shock:

WW 8)
Andy



User avatar
gregory23b
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:46 pm
Location: Gyppeswyk, Suffolk

Postby gregory23b » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:04 pm

Ere Chickun what 'managing' do rabbits need ot reproduce as far as I can recall you have to pull the buggers apart, the males are rapacious beyond belief.


middle english dictionary

Isabela on G23b "...somehow more approachable in real life"

http://medievalcolours.blogspot.com

"I know my place." Alice the Huswyf

User avatar
Chickun
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Location: Suffolk

Postby Chickun » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:18 pm

I suppose "managing" would be "harvesting" i.e. catching em and also stopping the ner-do-wells of the W. Suffolk region from pilfering them.

I agree they don't need much encouragement to breed.



User avatar
gregory23b
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:46 pm
Location: Gyppeswyk, Suffolk

Postby gregory23b » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:52 pm

yes, harvesting rabbits sounds much better.

I can see it now giant rabbit stacks all over the place, nice smell too.

Rabbit is lovely.....


middle english dictionary

Isabela on G23b "...somehow more approachable in real life"

http://medievalcolours.blogspot.com

"I know my place." Alice the Huswyf

User avatar
JC Milwr
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:00 pm
Location: Not so far from Berkeleleley
Contact:

Postby JC Milwr » Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:55 am

Rabbits were uncommon and coddled in the early medieval period as they weren't hardy enough for our climate. Once natural selection had sorted that out, they were off!



User avatar
WhiteWolf
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Churchdown, Gloucestershire

Postby WhiteWolf » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:15 am

Looks like I'm going to have to use these skins for something else.

Anybody got a dolls house that needs a rug? :wink: :lol:

WW 8)
Andy



User avatar
Chickun
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Location: Suffolk

Postby Chickun » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:24 am

I guess it depends where and what time you are talking about - they were apparently introduced by the Normans after the conquest in artificial warrens called "pillow mounds". I suppose it'd take a while for them to get settled, but by the fact that there are two Warrener's lodges in breckland they were, at least in that part of the country where the sandy soil was very accomodating, quite prolific and established enough to warrant building substantial buildings.

WW I may well have them off you for said gown furring if you don't need/want them.



User avatar
WhiteWolf
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Churchdown, Gloucestershire

Postby WhiteWolf » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:37 am

Chickun wrote:WW I may well have them off you for said gown furring if you don't need/want them.


Hi Chickun

We will make something from them, I just bought one of Bowstocks leather starter kits, so I could use the skin to practice on.

May even make some fur knickers :shock: (OK to much information there :lol: )

WW 8)



User avatar
Chickun
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Location: Suffolk

Postby Chickun » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:46 am

Fair play mate, where did ya get them BTW? My missus would love me forever for lining mittens with rabbit skin!



User avatar
WhiteWolf
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Churchdown, Gloucestershire

Postby WhiteWolf » Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:30 am

Chickun wrote:Fair play mate, where did ya get them BTW? My missus would love me forever for lining mittens with rabbit skin!


Now there's an idea.

It was a stall at Blore that was actually selling wine and mead (well you have to, don't you :) ) and he had a basket full of them in every colour you could think a rabbit would come in :) . But sorry no idea what the traders name was.

Some of the other traders/re-enactors may know.

WW 8)



m300572
Post Centurion
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:11 pm
Location: NW England

Postby m300572 » Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:52 pm

Lots of rabbit warrens across the country (look for 'Warren' or 'Coney' place names on an OS map. they were essentially rabbit farms - pillow mounds were long artificial earthen mounds for the furrys to burrow into - lots of good examples on Dartmoor, which was a major centre of rabbit production in the 19th century. The best Dartmoor warrens have the warreners house (usually with a storage building attached) a dog plat - enclosure for dogs, sometimes with kennels built into the walls, and a range of pillow mounds. They were usually sited so that natural obstacles (rivers/streams/cliffs) formed a high proportion of the boundaries. The Dartmoor ones also habve vermin traps around the perimeter - these are X shaped settings of stone, the stoatlyweasly things would be funnelled into the centre of the X at they ran along the 'walls' (which are about 6" high) and there would be a tunnel with a spring trap in it to catch them there.



frances
Post Knight
Posts: 1003
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:32 pm
Location: Slaving over redoing the website: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/createthemood/
Contact:

Postby frances » Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:03 am

I can get hold of bunny skins, tanned and lovely and soft, white or black at £6 a piece plus postage. Or for £2 browny ones you have to tan yourself, as they are all stiff and horrible. Let me know. But I have not yet shown them to my own pet bunny. hehehe



User avatar
mally ley
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:06 pm
Location: lost.

Postby mally ley » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:54 am

gregory23b wrote:what 'managing' do rabbits need

The management was in the form of farming - not just harvesting but maintaining the warrens (which were manmade - or at least, man started), keeping the plebs out (rabbit meat was not cheap as it was 'farmed')managing the stock, numbers, older rabbits, numbers of males and making sure the ones left alive at the end of the summer season were hardy enough to last the winter but also in the right male/female proportions to start breeding like rabbits again in the spring!
Warreners were quite well to do, don'tcha know.



User avatar
Steve Stocker
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:24 pm
Location: Mid-Devon
Contact:

Postby Steve Stocker » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:01 pm

Twas Cadmus Dave, the old furry rascal. It seems he will be at the NLHF.


Usted no tiene prioridad

User avatar
WhiteWolf
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Churchdown, Gloucestershire

Postby WhiteWolf » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:14 pm

Steve Stocker wrote:Twas Cadmus Dave, the old furry rascal. It seems he will be at the NLHF.


I had guessed as much seeing his other posting about giving up the Mead :shock: and me putting 2 and 2 together :)

WW 8)



User avatar
cadmus dave
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:00 pm

Postby cadmus dave » Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:50 pm

:P Yes... it was I !!!!! Ta for buying the wabbits WW, when you think about it, the lower classes would have made bags and clothing from anything that was up to the job, rabbits would have been quite prolific by the 15th cent, and being pretty stoopid, easy to catch !. not everyone could afford the finer leathers and rabbit pelts would be easier to tan aswell. just a matter of stitching them together then !
Hi Steve, did you get your email regards cow hides ?.
we will have hare pelts and hopefully some very nice antlers and stuff by NLHF.
Dave.


he said something about having "salami in his slacks" i think !

User avatar
WhiteWolf
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Churchdown, Gloucestershire

Postby WhiteWolf » Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:57 pm

cadmus dave wrote: and hopefully some very nice antlers and stuff by NLHF.
Dave.


Now don't you go selling all the nice antlers till I get there. Need some for blade handles.

WW 8)
Andy



User avatar
cadmus dave
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:00 pm

Postby cadmus dave » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:03 pm

no problemo Mr Wolf, i will select some especially for you and hold them back. MY good lady made a blanket from wabbit skins and i have to say, bloody fab !! very warm and cosy. My wabbits will be flying out at a mere £5.00 each and you are all welcome to come and "feel the quality" so to speak. (discount for buying reasonable amounts of pelts). Is there any other type of pelt, skin or leather any of you would like me to try and find before the show ??
Dave.


he said something about having "salami in his slacks" i think !

User avatar
Tod
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2884
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:25 am
Location: A small part of Scotland hidden in middle England
Contact:

Postby Tod » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:27 am

If any one is interested I have a small amount of hair on deer skins, if you want one let me know and I'll bring it to the NLHF
Tod
Foxblade Trading



User avatar
Alice the Huswyf
Post Knight
Posts: 1308
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:13 am
Location: Please do not distract the exhibit

Postby Alice the Huswyf » Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:45 pm

Word about wearing rabbit fur.... I was rather disappointed to find (having bought enough white rabbit fur to make a late c15th gown collar) that according to the sumptuary laws of the period rabbit fur was still prohibited by status. Strictly so. Most ordinary women were allowed 'mudge' - the fur on a sheeps leg.

Coney still costed £££.



User avatar
WhiteWolf
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Churchdown, Gloucestershire

Postby WhiteWolf » Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:00 pm

Alice the Huswyf wrote:Word about wearing rabbit fur.... I was rather disappointed to find (having bought enough white rabbit fur to make a late c15th gown collar) that according to the sumptuary laws of the period rabbit fur was still prohibited by status. Strictly so. Most ordinary women were allowed 'mudge' - the fur on a sheeps leg.

Coney still costed £££.


Cheers,

I will just have to hide it in mittens :twisted: and no-one will ever know :twisted:

WW 8)



m300572
Post Centurion
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:11 pm
Location: NW England

Postby m300572 » Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:03 pm

the lower classes would have made bags and clothing f


And if you skin them carefully, leaving the heads attached to the skin, you can make very good rabbit glove puppets to upset mops....



User avatar
WhiteWolf
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Churchdown, Gloucestershire

Postby WhiteWolf » Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:09 pm

m300572 wrote:
the lower classes would have made bags and clothing f


And if you skin them carefully, leaving the heads attached to the skin, you can make very good rabbit glove puppets to upset mops....


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



User avatar
cadmus dave
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:00 pm

Postby cadmus dave » Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:26 pm

hmmmmm, so, there was no private trapping and skinning !! most people in the 15th c. lived off the land, scratching a meagre existance any way they could. given the chance, trapping and using animal skins would be quite normal. In towns maybe this law would be enforced but i think it would have been rare outside of these. Trouble with what we do is everyone likes to portray a character of good (or bad) standing who could afford nice cloths and armour. A tradesman may do better than a farmer but at the end of the day, people didnt stick to the laws any more than we do now, ie.. people poached game and wildlife back then, we still do now !.
Dave.


he said something about having "salami in his slacks" i think !

User avatar
WhiteWolf
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Churchdown, Gloucestershire

Postby WhiteWolf » Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:44 pm

cadmus dave wrote:but at the end of the day, people didnt stick to the laws any more than we do now, ie.. people poached game and wildlife back then, we still do now !.
Dave.


You mean you fracture a few laws to get your skins? :wink:
:lol: :lol: Naughty Medieval Mister :lol: :lol:

WW 8)

P.S.
Don't forget to save me some :lol:




Return to “Costumes”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests