how low are braies ?

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Brian la Zouche
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how low are braies ?

Postby Brian la Zouche » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:54 pm

At an event this weekend I was asked on both days by the public, why did the knights go around with their 'underpants' showing, I can't say I had ever noticed this before but when asked about this ( to which i replied sorry I dont know ) it was pretty obvious quite a few had hose either down to the knee, or not much above it, it wasnt the warmest of weekends, so I'd guess it wasnt done for warmth, never really thought about untill asked, so I'd like to pose the same question to those of you who know way more than me on this subject, so why do knights go around showing their 'underpants' ? :-D



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The Methley Archer
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Re: how low are braies ?

Postby The Methley Archer » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:39 pm

A rough generalisation would be split hose reaching thigh height late 14C rising to waist height early 15C. Then crossing over to joined hose earlyish 15C and split hose becoming less common as the century progresses with only those in very menial and poor jobs continuing to wear split hose.

What period are you talking about?


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Brian la Zouche
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Re: how low are braies ?

Postby Brian la Zouche » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:44 am

sorry yeah, seperate hose for the 14th century, i probby should have called the post 'how short are hose? ' :D
what was asked and pointed out to me were knights etc who were wearing tunics etc, from the side and back you could see most with hose not much higher than just above the knee so their braies were clearly visable, hence the public asking why they could see their underpants ( braies ),

i wear split hose too, but mine come quite high on the leg, and with my new 14th cent tunic ( made by the fantastic jackie philips ) i can bend over as far as i can and my braies are still hidden,

its no biggie, just when ever the public ask me a question i dont know the answer to, i try and find out, in case i am asked again, and also helps me to gain a little bit more knowledge for my own mind



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Re: how low are braies ?

Postby guthrie » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:13 am

The Company of St GEorge 'Dragons' have some useful illustrations of men in braies, albeit most 15th century I think. I can't remember which one mind you.



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Biro
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Re: how low are braies ?

Postby Biro » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:27 am

Here's a c13 pic: http://dawnofchivalry.wikispaces.com/Hose

You can see that the back is kind of mid-thigh-ish, the front goes all the way up to where it attaches to the braes - but the braes also hang quite low (the waistline on them was really low too - just sitting on the hip-bone).

You'll also notice that the cotte is more than long enough to cover the braes though.

And for completeness (as per the thread title):- http://dawnofchivalry.wikispaces.com/Braes

Getting out of my sphere of knowlege, but it does seem that later, the hose get longer, braies shorter.



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Re: how low are braies ?

Postby Colin Middleton » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:20 pm

I'm with Biro on that. AFAIK, hosen start of a bit above the knea, with braise (and cote) a bit below. As the years go by, the hosen get longer and longer until they meet the doublet, while the briase continue to end just below the lowest point on the top of the hosen and the cote similarly remains descently long. I'd say that if you knights are wearing a cote so short as to show of their breaches, then they're not being very knightly!


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Errent Knight
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Re: how low are braies ?

Postby Errent Knight » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:12 pm

We're early to mid 14th and generally the tunic is about knee length, with the hose going up to mid thigh, being tied at the waist to the braies.

The only time we show our "underpants" usually is when one of us is flat on our backs after fighting! Somehow you always end up legs akimbo, or at least I do :)



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Re: how low are braies ?

Postby Colin Middleton » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:19 pm

I'm glad that it's not just me. Every time I see a photo of myself when I've fallen, I'm on my back and all my gambeson and hauberk have flown up ontop of me! It's so undignified. :D

Best wishes

Colin


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Brian la Zouche
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Re: how low are braies ?

Postby Brian la Zouche » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:59 pm

brill guys ty, wasnt an issue with myself, but at least now i can tell anyone who asks in the future :-D


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Re: how low are braies ?

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:26 am

I have a air of breeches that look like modern Y frounts for when I am wearing my Italian single hose (which don't look like singke hose unless you really study them) and have seen german examples that look like thongs. I am hoping at some point to find evidence for A Borat style mankini.


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Karen Larsdatter
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Re: how low are braies ?

Postby Karen Larsdatter » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:23 am

The length of braies varies over time -- see http://www.larsdatter.com/breeches.htm -- although, really, there are very few points when knights seem to be wandering around in public with their braies showing. Farm-workers & laborers, sure, or naughty boys or wicked men in the process of being punished -- but knights? :-?



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Re: how low are braies ?

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:12 pm

I agree they paid other men to walk around in their breeches. Numpties.


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Re: how low are braies ?

Postby Langley » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:23 am

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:I have a air of breeches that look like modern Y frounts for when I am wearing my Italian single hose (which don't look like singke hose unless you really study them) and have seen german examples that look like thongs. I am hoping at some point to find evidence for A Borat style mankini.


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Re: how low are braies ?

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:02 pm

I have always found the mankini an inspired and comfortable item that should be part of every man's wardrobe.


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