Helmet liners?

[Tod]

I've got a very nice bellows faced sallet from St Georges Armoury and need to put a liner in it. It has a leather inner band for attachment. Rather than just put a standard spider it in does any one have pictures or refernces to the original type. Should it just be a spider type arrangement or padding?

[Colin Middleton]

As far as I can remember, there are liners that simply cover the inside of the helmet with padding and fabric and there are 'spider' style liners, often made from quilted fabric too. I think that I've seen both in Medieval Helmets (and I'm assuming that they're not re-productions, but I can't be certain).

Colin

[Tod]

I moved this here as it might get more replies.

[Dave B]

I discussed this at some length when I got my helmet made (from an illustration in schilling). Mac made it with a liner that is both a spider, but also padding. It's similar to the one in the link below. He based this design on some surviving examples, but I have not seen the origionals.

It has four triangles of padding, that meet up. Each triangle has a loop at the top and they are tied together with a thong. this means that it suspends the dome off the head like a spider, but if it moves about there is still padding between head and helmet. It certainly works well, and I trust Mac when he says it is based on origionals, but as I say I have not seen them myself, although I have seen a salet in the armouries where what little remains of the liner is consistent with this.


http://zbroje.mac-armour.cz/gallery.html?folder=121

If you want to have a look at mine in detail let me know and I'll bring it to a market, or maybe just take some detailed photos. It really does work well, it's comfortable, and it would stay on if I turned my head upside down even without the chinstrap.

[Tod]

I you could bring it to the ILHF I would like a look, thanks.

[Mark Griffin]

Daves method is pretty well spot on. There are existing ones in a variety of collections, specifically a black sallet in Leeds has a nice example in situ. I did have a look at the ones in the Wallace Collection with david Edge a while back but they were unprovenanced and we both felt 'not uite right'.

Some have cotton wadding in, the gestech linings in Vienna and a couple of other 16th morion linings I've looked at were sheep's wool.

[John Waller]

I made something similar to Dave's with linen canvas filled with tow that I got from a plumbers merchant.

[Dave B]

I you could bring it to the ILHF I would like a look, thanks.

If I can't get to the ILHF this year, I'll ask Fox nicely to take it. Do you want any photos? easily done.

Dave

[Tod]

If you wouldn't mind.

[Dave B]

Give me 10 minutes....

[Dave B]

Here you go, let me know if you need anything else. Note that the padding has been judged so that the first inch or so fully fills the gap between head and helmet, but above that the head is held away from the metal.

http://photobucket.com/helmetlinerdetail

[Tod]

Very helpful, that's all I need as I can work from that. I owe you a drink.

[Mark Griffin]

Nice one Dave.

But why bother copying the originals and sticking to the sources when there could be so much more variety and made up stuff to have fun with?

[John Waller]

Nice one Dave.

But why bother copying the originals and sticking to the sources when there could be so much more variety and made up stuff to have fun with?

'Zactly. I well remember our foam rubber lined morions. What the eye can't see, eh?

[Mark Griffin]

Foam rubber? FOAM RUBBER!!?

By heck you had it easy lad.

I remember in the 80's i had a helmet made of an old german land mine (live mind you) with t'liner made from a rotting sack of cold thumb tacks held in by wedges of burning cowdung. AND we considered ourselves lucky! And we had to pay to be there and tip the driver with our own blood which he made into black pudding that he sold back to us for breakfast.

Still, I hear conditions in SCUM have improved considerably now...