Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Historic questions, thoughts and other interesting stuff

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Christabel
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Herefordshire

Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Christabel » Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:59 pm

Apparently the tradition English otterhound is in decline. This set me thinking about old breeds of dog. In 'Macbeth' Shakespeare mentions 'hounds and greyhounds, mongrels, spaniels, curs, shoughs, water-rugs and demi-wolves.' Some of these are still around, even if a King Charles spaniel looks different to the strange furry white creature seated at the front of the picture of Queen Elizabeth dancing the volta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rober ... ancing.jpg
Greyhounds and wolfhounds were also dogs for the elite, but there are pictures of watchmen and the like with hound-type guard dogs, so what would be most appropriate out of modern breeds to suggest the old types? Could we get away with a cross between an Old English sheepdog and an otterhound for a shaggy shough? Could a demi-wolf be an alsatian/husky cross? Could a water rug be a cross between a springer spaniel and, well, a rug? (Or poodle)
Looking at photos of Victorian/Edwardian farmers, their sheep or cattle dogs look very different from collies today, and that wasn't very long ago, so we may never know what a Tudor mongrel might look like except if archaeology gives us the bare bones, like the little dog from the Mary Rose. What's your best guess?




User avatar
Kairra
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:40 pm
Location: River Trent and various other watery places

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Kairra » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:33 am

A demi-wolf could easily be a WolfDog, they've been around since man first started accepting a more domesticated wild dog to live with them. I am also in love with them.


“When you pass by the meadows of Paradise indulge freely in it.”
They said: “O Messenger of Allah, what are the meadows of Paradise?”
He replied: “The circles of knowledge.”
Excerpt from the Qu'ran.

I'm not religious, but if it makes sense...

User avatar
latheaxe
Posts: 445
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:42 pm
Location: LANCASHIRE

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby latheaxe » Tue May 01, 2012 10:11 am

Modern dogs that look like there medieval forebearers include, Greyhounds,Irish wolfhound,Mastiff,Hovawort,Hunting spaniel,Schnauzer and Setters which have remained relativley unchanged since the middle ages. I dare say there will be more too!. There would have been loads of crosses which to be honest as long as it was not recognizable as say a poodle etc would fit the bill.....

The picture above I would say there is a good chance the dog was shaved..Left long at the front to thrash though bracken etc but cut short at the rear so it didnt get snagged up..Would love to be proved wrong though! :D



User avatar
Foxe
Post Centurion
Posts: 759
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: Defending Devon from French invasion
Contact:

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Foxe » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:59 am

Just because I like 'em, my 'Tudor' dogs:

Image

Image

Image


...and further this Informant saith not.

Foxe

'Don't be fooled by his general air of living in a skip'

http://www.etfox.co.uk

User avatar
Christabel
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Christabel » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:13 pm

*Dog envy*



User avatar
Foxe
Post Centurion
Posts: 759
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: Defending Devon from French invasion
Contact:

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Foxe » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:35 pm

There are plenty of lurchers in need of a home, hundreds of them... :(

Mine both came from Ireland, via Dorset Dog Rescue: http://www.dorsetdogrescue.com/dogsneedinghomes.htm


...and further this Informant saith not.

Foxe

'Don't be fooled by his general air of living in a skip'

http://www.etfox.co.uk

User avatar
Christabel
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Christabel » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:13 pm

Well done - I have been wanting to get a rescued greyhound but work full time and have two cats...it's a long-term dream, but there are so many dogs out there that need homes now!



User avatar
Angie
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Grove,Wantage

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Angie » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:38 pm

I work full time and have a greyhound, she is happy sleeping all day. Most re-homing kennels cat test the dogs before they are ready to be re-homed. If you find a good kennel ask them about cats and they will try and match you with a dog that fits with your home life.


There was a young woman from Wantage, to whom the town clerk took advantage,Said the Borough surveyor "Indeed you must pay 'er, you've totally altered her frontage"

User avatar
STEENIE
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:17 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby STEENIE » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:23 pm

The Tudor Talbot which is supposed to be an extinct breed is in fact the 'Sluggi'. The Egyptian greyhound which was prized by nobles in the middle east. It is a sight hound. Is the only dog that the islamic Prophet said you could have in your tent. The knights of the crusade, brought them back with them. Closely related to the Saluki but without the flowing hair of this breed.

http://dog-project.ru/dog/english/borzy ... ya_borzaya


We feast upon those that seek to subdue us. (Adams Family motto but suits my family exactly)

User avatar
Foxe
Post Centurion
Posts: 759
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: Defending Devon from French invasion
Contact:

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Foxe » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:29 am

Angie wrote:I work full time and have a greyhound, she is happy sleeping all day.


That's not quite true though is it... greyhounds and lurchers only sleep most of the day. They like to spend twenty minutes running like a loon and possibly as much as ten minutes eating. Chair ownership only takes up the other 23 1/2 hours.


...and further this Informant saith not.

Foxe

'Don't be fooled by his general air of living in a skip'

http://www.etfox.co.uk

User avatar
Christabel
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Christabel » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:23 pm

I wish these posts had a 'like' button as on FB!



User avatar
Angie
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Grove,Wantage

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Angie » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:09 pm

As long as 10 minutes eating- wow. Mysty tends to take a few minutes. :?


There was a young woman from Wantage, to whom the town clerk took advantage,Said the Borough surveyor "Indeed you must pay 'er, you've totally altered her frontage"

User avatar
Miss Costello
Post Knight
Posts: 1091
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Miss Costello » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:32 pm

Can reccomend a rescue greyhound. We went to the rescue centre looking for a terrier and came away with a greyhound. He's the most gentle, daft, loyal lazy b**ger. A Sofa and scraps thief, but more importantly (as we take him to events) VERY good with the public and suitable for all eras!

He looked like this on the day we picked him up, he'd been living rough for about 3 months. he had been owned by travellers and badly beaten and still has the scars. He's learned to trust us, but it's taken time.
Image

He's a lot happier now.

Image
Image



User avatar
Foxe
Post Centurion
Posts: 759
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: Defending Devon from French invasion
Contact:

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Foxe » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:15 pm

Good for you :thumbup:

I think seeing a scabby little dog can put a lot of people off. I still don't quite understand why we brought this sorry looking creature into our home:
Image

But, all she asked was some love and not to be abused, and she turned into the lovely girl you can see in my photos above (you can still see the scars though).

Sorry for the Cuba, I tend to go on when I get onto the subject of my dogs.


...and further this Informant saith not.

Foxe

'Don't be fooled by his general air of living in a skip'

http://www.etfox.co.uk

User avatar
Kajte
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:57 pm
Location: right here, right now

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Kajte » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:47 am

To continue the cuba, and share the hound love, another vote for adopting an ex racer here!

Our Irish Greyhound came to us with the usual baldy bum, tum, thighs and tail, a bag of skin and bones, covered in scars and a few bits and bobs missing.

From this lost and lonely little boy
Image
Image

To this
Image
Image

The only problem is, it's hard to keep to having just one!

Cuba over :)



User avatar
Angie
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Grove,Wantage

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Angie » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:27 pm

I'd love more than one greyhound but I'd have to move and get another car!!

The only problem we have found with Mysty is she is fine whilst allowed to sleep on the bed in our tent but when it comes to taking her for a wee walk we struggle to get her out of the tent. We are re socialising her getting her used to crowds and noise again.

They are fab for renacting inso far as being historically accurate but depending on the dog you may have issues along the way that they will need help with.


There was a young woman from Wantage, to whom the town clerk took advantage,Said the Borough surveyor "Indeed you must pay 'er, you've totally altered her frontage"

User avatar
Miss Costello
Post Knight
Posts: 1091
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Miss Costello » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:05 pm

I'm in good company I see! Brilliant...spread the gospel about Greyhounds. So nice to see the 'before and after' pics. Foxe, she's adorable, Kajte.. it breaks your heart to see how cruel people can be. Worst I saw was at an event, the por hound had no ears (cut off to avoid tracing him through his tattoos) and was covered in cig burns. A family had taken him in, a lovely brindle and the kids adored him. Was so lovely to see him finding love and affection after all he'd been thorugh.
I'm welling up here so I'll shut up. But if you're in the East Yorkshire area, my local rescue always has loads of greyhounds.

http://www.hullanimalwelfare.co.uk/dogs/

Kate



User avatar
Foxe
Post Centurion
Posts: 759
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: Defending Devon from French invasion
Contact:

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Foxe » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:03 pm

Kajte wrote:The only problem is, it's hard to keep to having just one!


Um... I failed.


...and further this Informant saith not.

Foxe

'Don't be fooled by his general air of living in a skip'

http://www.etfox.co.uk

User avatar
Christabel
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Christabel » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:52 pm

Years ago, when a student in Scotland, I went to a private historic house as part of a friend's research project. It had a lovely central hall with black and white marble flags. A large and gracious black and white greyhound rose up langorously and came to greet me. Looking up at the 16th century portrait of a member of the family which hung over the fireplace, I could see the exact same dog in the picture. Except, of course, it wasn't... (Ever since I have thought how lovely greyhounds are.) The owner of the house had been travelling down an empty snowy country road, and saw some disturbance in the snow. She kept on but on the way back stopped just to check, leaving her car door open. She couldn't see anything, but when she got back to her car, the greyhound was sitting in the car seat. She immediately recognised its resemblance to the dog in her ancestor's portrait, and not seeing any humans around at all, took the dog back home with her. At the time, I thought, that's quite freaky, but years later with better publicity I now realise that it was probably a dumped racer. But still, serendipity!!



User avatar
Fox
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2652
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:27 pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Fox » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:25 pm

My new English Mastiff, Isabel; a breed chosen specifically because I'm a re-enactor, so she'll have to be one too.

Isabel.jpg


Bright, sociable and period correct for everything from Roman to Victorian (and beyond).

And this is what she'll grow into, Isabel with her Mum and Dad:
Mum, Dad and Isabel.jpg


With an adult weight around 200lbs, possibly not the dog for everyone though....



guthrie
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:54 pm
Location: Polmont-Edinburgh

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby guthrie » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:53 pm

Cool, have fun with her.



User avatar
Miss Costello
Post Knight
Posts: 1091
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby Miss Costello » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:55 pm

gorgeous! :D



James The Archer
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:19 pm
Location: Centre of the world

Re: Dog types in Medieval/Tudor/Stuart times

Postby James The Archer » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:53 pm

Fox wrote:My new English Mastiff, Isabel; a breed chosen specifically because I'm a re-enactor, so she'll have to be one too.

Isabel.jpg


Bright, sociable and period correct for everything from Roman to Victorian (and beyond).

And this is what she'll grow into, Isabel with her Mum and Dad:
Mum, Dad and Isabel.jpg


With an adult weight around 200lbs, possibly not the dog for everyone though....

And after meeting her (when she was awake) she is lovely


Duck the arrows are coming!


Return to “General History”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest