Pack Saddles

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Marghec
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Pack Saddles

Postby Marghec » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:53 am

Hi all,

I have been asked to make a Medieval Pack Saddle.

I have seen and photographed in use a variety of pack saddles as used by 'primitive' cultures around the world, but have only found a few vague sketches of pack saddles from Medieval Europe, and details of these are generally obscured by the load. Most pack saddles revolve around the same simple design, because there is only really one answer to this age old problem, however I intend to collate as many medieval sketches and references as possible prior to designing my 'best guess' pack saddle.

Thus, does anyone know of any illustrations or references, or of anyone who has built one?

Thanks,

John Tremelling



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Type16
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Postby Type16 » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:21 pm

Hi John,
The only illustration I have is the water carrier from the Luttrell Psalter.
Andy.
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Luttrell packhorse.jpg


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Postby Vermin » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:03 pm

There a few pictures on the Companie of St George site in their Dragons newsletter

http://www.companie-of-st-george.ch/cms ... gon-11.pdf - page 10

Though again it's mostly the load rather than the saddle


http://www.companie-of-st-george.ch/cms/?q=en/Dragons



Marghec
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Pack Saddles

Postby Marghec » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:16 pm

Thanks Vermin.

Andy, I am not familiar with that image and only have odd pages reproduced from the Luttrell Psalter. Is it available in its entirety?

Thanks both,

John T



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Postby Theotherone » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:05 pm



Because there would have to be three of them.

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Postby Type16 » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:07 pm

Hi John,

the book I have has extract illustrations from the L. Psalter & few full pages. (Medieval Rural Life. Isbn0-7123-4663-5)

I have found this page on the British Library site that might help -- a virtual book!

http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/sacredtexts/ttpbooks.html

Perhaps they have other documents that may be of intertest / help ?

Good luck, Andy


Archers have a way of making their point
Walk softly & carry a big (pointy) stick

Image

www.marcherfreemen.org.uk
www.andysherriff.co.uk ---- First Aid for Re-enactors

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lidimy
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Postby lidimy » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:48 pm

Ian Harbottle is on here though he doesn't post much.. he's a historical saddler so might have come across this before, might be worth getting in touch with him.

He posted on this thread a while back.

http://livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewt ... ht=#134320


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Marghec
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Pack Saddles

Postby Marghec » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:32 am

Thanks for your various help.

Fascinating site from British Library.

John T



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Timothy
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Pack saddles

Postby Timothy » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:16 pm

If it is of any use to you, there are some excellent pictures of unladen pack saddles in East Roman ("Byzantine") mss. I reproduce one in my Osprey Warrior volume *Byzantine Infantryman*

Timothy


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Marghec
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Pack Saddles

Postby Marghec » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:58 am

Thanks Timothy, all useful.

John T



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Timothy
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Pack Saddles

Postby Timothy » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:11 pm

> Thanks Timothy, all useful.

> John T

That's OK, as I may well pick your brains in return in due course. I have plans to make one myself for next season.

T.


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Postby Fair Lady Aside » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:17 pm

There's a manuscript image of a pack horse being attacked by a bear. The tree is shown quite clearly. It's looks to be little more than a blanket over the horse's back with a series of staves attached to it. I don't recall what the activity in the scene was and am currently looking for it. If I find it, I'll post it.

But it is not unlike this pack saddle for a lama.

http://www.soprisllamas.com/images/soprissaddle.gif

They seem to have different attachments or styles dependent on the baggage type you're moving.

I've seen others with half "hoops" or what look to be upside down yokes to carry roped bundles and others to carry chests or panniers.


Jenn Reed
Fidelité jusqu'au bout

Marghec
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Pack Saddles

Postby Marghec » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:00 pm

Thanks Jenn, I have seen similar saddles used in Vietnam.

John T



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Fair Lady Aside
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Postby Fair Lady Aside » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:55 am

I found a few pack saddles from paintings and manuscripts in my image collection. I'll have to post them when I have a chance. I even found the one with the bear. Also found one that shows the 'U'U's.


Jenn Reed

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Postby Fair Lady Aside » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:17 pm

Pack Saddles:

Bear attacking pack horse, man putting bags on bear.

Italian Baggage Train: Pannier type (look at the mule rounding the bend and the ones on the top slope carrying chests).

Flemish art


Jenn Reed

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Postby Merlon. » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:56 pm




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Postby Fair Lady Aside » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:29 pm

Very nice. Shows the lacing holes, structure, etc...

I think this one and the one I showed with the bear are 1500s. Might be a tad late. However, I don't think you can get any simpler in design than this type other than the X__X type.

I have one somewhere of Mary from 1426 that shows the forward edge that looks similar.


Jenn Reed

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Marghec
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Pack Saddles

Postby Marghec » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:54 pm

Thanks again Merlon and Jenn. Not much changed really, only one answer to the age old problem.

John T




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