Dutch West India Uniform

Foxe · Post by **Foxe** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:00 am

I'm afraid that that is very probably true!

Fox · Post by **Fox** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:42 pm

I'm also attempting to learn Dutch....

..which is both easy and really difficult.

The language is, quite comfortingly, half English, half German; but then impossible to pronounce!

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:10 pm

I want one of they thar white coats from page 1, HOW impractical? Want want want want want.
Must get some proper shoes first though. Keep getting funny looks around the medieval legs.
Bucket has worked his customs and excise up a treat, he is Mr.Spry's slightly smarter sidekick. He is now starting work on some Very Posh kit, all silk and embroidered.
I'm still a scruffy oik.
Fox, Lulworth?

Foxe · Post by **Foxe** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:45 pm

Or Chatham Dockyard? (Most of the Morwellham crowd will be there).

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:30 pm

Xcuse hignerance, is it the same weekend?

Foxe · Post by **Foxe** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:13 am

Yup, unfortunately so. In a nutshell, Lulworth were asking for more than the UKPB could provide so the event was turned down and Chatham taken instead. Since then Dave Allen has taken on the pirate event at Lulworth so both events are running over the same weekend. Chatham is going to be more in the nature of a typical reencatment (as far as UKPB events are ever typical) while Lulworth is going to be much more LARP influenced (including, I believe, mandatory use of rubber boffer-swords). To be honest, both events look like fun but most pirate groups had committed to go to Chatham before the invitation for Lulworth came out.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:17 pm

Decisions. BUM!

Andy R · Post by **Andy R** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:55 pm

Cat wrote:I want one of they thar white coats from page 1, HOW impractical? Want want want want want.

Hi Cat,

one of our lot has some that he bought as a job lot off of the now defunct la Reine. (White faced red)

Unfortunately they did not fit our physiques (cough, cough) but you may find them better.

I know Dingo's sold one of them, but I shall ask him when I am back at work. He's just down the road from you near Chipenham if interested.[/i]

Foxe · Post by **Foxe** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:34 am

What period are they? I'm in the process of organising a 1690s event for which Frenchmen are definitely required - if the coats are right (or even near-right) I might be able to find space in the budget to take the lot of his hands.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:30 pm

'The lot' bar the one I've just bagsed- Andy, PM sent. Deffo interested!
(If you don't get the pm, let me know on here-some aren't arriving at the mo.)

Foxe · Post by **Foxe** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:17 pm

That's OK Cat, just means you'll have to join the frogs!

steve stanley · Post by **steve stanley** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:48 pm

More targets................
Steve

Andy R · Post by **Andy R** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:41 pm

steve stanley wrote:More targets................

Means you might hit something

Foxe, the coats are 1750's, but are only different in as much as the buttons are fewer, the skirts aren't quite so full, and the coats are white as opposed to light grey.

Close enough though in the grand scheme of things.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:00 pm

You know my thinking on that one- the more enemiferous the character, the better fight you get!

Dave B · Post by **Dave B** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:43 pm

Foxe wrote: RN slop clothes for the period are available off the peg,

Can you point me to a link? I'm thinking of getting some very basic kit together for pirate type stuff when I get the chance. I've seen your red slops reproduction, and patterns, but not off the peg kit.

Dave

Foxe · Post by **Foxe** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:49 am

Kass McGann of http://www.reconstructinghistory.com has some nautical bits (trousers, slops etc) that are right for the period on her "clothing" page. Although they're not on the site I know she also had some jackets made to the Admiralty Slop Contract specs and may have some left in stock if you shoot her an email.

FWIW I have one of the striped linen waistcoats which has firmly become my waistcoat of choice.

Dave B · Post by **Dave B** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:28 am

Cheers, I'll have a look at that.

My main re-enactment interest is medieval, but I fancied having a go at an occasional pirating event

My theory was that some striped linen trousers, a shirt, short coat, and monmouth cap would do for ordinary crew on either side, perhaps just dressed up with a fancy headscarf and sash for pirating.

Does that sound like it would work (sorry to hijack your Dutch thread btw Fox). And am I going down the right road with trousers? the re-enactment fashion seems to be 'slop trousers' whilst the illustrations seem to be mostly long trousers, and the documentation seems to suggest more 'closed' breeches. or am I missing something?

Foxe · Post by **Foxe** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:45 pm

You're pretty much spot on Dave, depending on what part of the GAoP you're interested in. As reenactors we tend to lump the whole of the period together, but if you take outside dates as 1690-1730 then you're looking at a 40 year period. The most interesting people were active 1715-25, so that's the period most of us aim for.

There appears to be little difference between sailors' jackets circa 1690 and 1730, so you're safe there. Same with things like hats, stockings, shirts etc. The big difference for the common sailor is the leg-wear. Trousers (mid-calf to ankle length) make their entry in the records (both pictorial and documentary) around 1710ish, and were specifically associated with English sailors throughout the GAoP. Closed breeches appear to have been the most common thing for the whole period, judging by supply documents (like the Admiralty Slop contracts and the inventory of Joseph Haycock's slop-shop), but other documentation suggests that seamen could be distinguished by their "wide-kneed breeches", leading many to posit that slops were generally made by the seamen themselves, hence their relative absence in supply docs.

Short answer: breeches, slops, and trousers are all suitable, depending on period. Breeches changed style over the period while slops appear to have been more or less constant (though there aren't enough pictures available to say that with any certainty), hence the reenactor fashion for slops (probably).

I wouldn't worry too much about sash and head-scarf if you're aiming for something accurate - the evidence for both is elusive.

Dave B · Post by **Dave B** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:19 pm

Foxe wrote:I wouldn't worry too much about sash and head-scarf if you're aiming for something accurate - the evidence for both is elusive.

Perhaps I'm using the wrong terms, a lot of pictures seem to have a bandana type coloured cloth, often round the neck and/or as a belt.

Foxe · Post by **Foxe** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:14 am

Neck-cloth certainly, almost mandatory. Sashes appear in the odd picture but invariably on captains only (and there's a lot of pictures of captains without them). I can only think of one reference to a pirate in a sash outside a series of 1732 woodcuts. They existed, sure, but appear to have been somewhat uncommon.

Fox · Post by **Fox** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:14 pm

Cat wrote:Fox, Lulworth?

Chatham Dockyard looks more likely, because I've got lots of guns I'd like to use, although it's a good deal further for us to go (and Lulworth is far enough).

I'll need to learn more about both I suppose.

Tod · Post by **Tod** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:31 pm

Fox, there is a really really nice cartridge bag sitting in my front room with your name on it

Lace Wars were offered Lulworth, but we couldn't do the numbers, and we felt that doing hand to hand which isn't very 18th century any way was going to be an accident waiting to happen. No offence to the pirate types but the bayonets are real and sharp, and there is only one way to fight with them

Some of us might go as independents, but what's this about LARP and rubber swords?

New thread started on this in this section.

Dave B · Post by **Dave B** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:58 pm

Should we split this post off after fox's last post actualy on the subject, to leave it ready for photos of the finished kit as it turns up, and make all this cuban stuff into a new thread called 'general pirate waffle'?

Should be easy enough to do and as the origional thread was so specific, and has updates on fox's progress with the project it seems a shame not to leave it as a consistant and readable record.

Fox · Post by **Fox** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:14 pm

Nah. It's all good. Forums are built to be hijacked.

See, now we've moderator hijacked it.

Dave B · Post by **Dave B** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:45 am

Foxe wrote:Kass McGann of http://www.reconstructinghistory.com has some nautical bits (trousers, slops etc)

Just to continue the Cuba then, I've ordered some striped slops and a shirt from Kass, who is very helpfull. The dollar exchange rate is very helpfull at the moment.

Dave

Foxe · Post by **Foxe** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:39 pm

Dave B wrote:Just to continue the Cuba then, I've ordered some striped slops and a shirt from Kass, who is very helpfull. The dollar exchange rate is very helpfull at the moment.

And there's a very handsome guy modelling the slops too...

frances · Post by **frances** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:03 am

Have I missed something when I blinked? When is Chatham? Last time I was there I was 1750's and, unusually, managed to get hold of a programme beforehand. So I was able to dress exactly like the lady in the publicity. The time before that a dead beetle dropped onto my table from the wooden roof - it was huge. So my Chathams have all been memorable.

Foxe · Post by **Foxe** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:17 pm

Chatham is the late May Bank Holiday 2008. It's a UK Pirate Brotherhood event, organised by the Sheppey Pirates.