How to tell who is a Knight.

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lidimy
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Post by lidimy »

Honestly, I really wouldn't mind being a Squire. It's not that I don't want to do anything else though - SHOULD be starting archery in 6th form, which though not authentic, should at least give me the basic idea? Funny, I thought that being an archer would be a more popular option :) long bow: |) --->

Drummer? Ha ha :D Didn't know you needed them :D

Banner bearer? I thought only the horsey people did all that :o sounds fun though. But aren't they the people who get killed first or something?


Do keep suggestions coming xD

Lidi :D
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Wayland2002

Post by Wayland2002 »

Cat wrote:Yeh, that's all well and good but have you ever burped a really bad one into your bevoir?
Vomiting into your bevoir is worse................no I haven't but I once met someone who had. He ended up buying a new one.

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Post by Nigel »

try puking into your ventail

the carrots get stuck and the liquid soaks into the padding
There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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lidimy
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Post by lidimy »

Stop contaminating my thread! :o
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Wayland2002

Post by Wayland2002 »

No :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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Post by guthrie »

lidimy wrote:Stop contaminating my thread! :o
This is part of training to become a squire!


(Squirrel training is available somewhere else)

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lidimy
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Post by lidimy »

I don't want to be one anymore :cry:

Lol just kidding. But it is kinda mank... can we move on peas :)
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Post by Marcus Woodhouse »

"Can we move on peas"... don't get me started on how hard it is to get mushy peas out of a maille coif!!!!!!!
OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

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Post by Nigel »

it's something you need to be aware of in all honesty if it wasnt for the actions of several of my friends I could ahve drowned

they new their way around my armour and sorted it out
There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Post by lidimy »

they new their way around my armour and sorted it out
That's what I'm here for....

*pales*

:D
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Post by Nigel »

so it s kind of important that you do

these werent squires we dont ahve a hierarchy we ahve a commander and he appoints as necessary the rest are heavily armoured infantry types

But in all seriouseness you need to understand how kit goes together
There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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lidimy
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Post by lidimy »

:) Please don't have a go at me for not knowing, I understand the safety aspect of it but I just don't have the experience :oops:
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Post by Tuppence »

trust me, that wasn't having a go.

but don't worry about it - you get the experience from watching a few times.


and if all else fails, there's always the bolt cutters :twisted: :twisted:

standard bearers and water carriers are pretty much immortal - the latter run away yelling non com, and the former get protected unless pre arranged.

you don't want to know what happens to those who try to take flags without permission :shock:
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Graham Field
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Post by Graham Field »

Hi

The definition of a knight is a very personal view determined by your own views, expectations and experiences.

Historically - a Knight was someone who was knighted by a person of sufficient rank.

Reenactment - depends on the society

In the Medieval Combat Society (MCS) knighthood is attained only by that person (Male or Female) being judged fit to become a knight, and is decided by the other knights (after all they have to fight them). There is no weapons test, but a constant observation of what they do and how they react. This process can take a year, but is usually between 2-4 years, (that being often the point of realisation of actually how little they know). There are a variety of factors involved, and martial ability is just one aspect, but there are many more. In the MCs you are only entitled to wear your colours (heraldry) and spurs on the field of battle after having been granted the title of a knight, it is something that has to be earned, not somthing that can be attained simply by having the correct kit. When a person is knighted, they carry out a vigil and then a knighting ceremony, being a special occassion that they will remember for the rest of their lives.

I like the perceptions of knighthood, some of these have been dealt with already

- those on horseback, but not necessarily
Many 14th/15th Century battles were fought on foot, although the French Chivalry did persist on horseback
- those with modern looking equipment?
The older knights may well have stuck with what they had unless they were very rich, did armour change that quickly?
- those with more plate, though that's only relative!
more plate generally equates to the above
- those who have body guards, though they might be at the front anyway Confused
bodyguards, or actually in command of a body of men?
- those who have swords, though not necessarily!
No generally swords were used, Bretons apparently favoured axes, although it would tell you apart from an archer
- those with clear heraldy, though it might not actually be clear
Historically yes, on the modern reenactment field no
- those who might, or might not be yelling orders.
No, command is about giving orders to those who yell

How to tell a knight when you meet them? Experience will tell you, anyone can claim to be a knight, but their actions will let you decide.

My 2 Groats worth

Regards

Graham
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Post by Chris, yclept John Barber »

lidimy wrote:Honestly, I really wouldn't mind being a Squire. It's not that I don't want to do anything else though - SHOULD be starting archery in 6th form, which though not authentic, should at least give me the basic idea? Funny, I thought that being an archer would be a more popular option :) long bow: |) --->

Drummer? Ha ha :D Didn't know you needed them :D

Banner bearer? I thought only the horsey people did all that :o sounds fun though. But aren't they the people who get killed first or something?


Do keep suggestions coming xD

Lidi :D
Archery is great as a test of your skill against a target, but no match for the adrenaline rush of hand-to-hand combat. That's why the ratio amongst reenactors is the reverse of that which is historically accurate: English armies in the 14th & 15th centuries tended to be as many as 7 archers for every sword/polearm man, in re-enactments it's the other way round.

If you're taking archery classes, there's nothing to stop you turning up with your own longbow - your bow can be orfentic even if the class and clothes aren't!

Drummers are a bit of flash and something for a non-combatant to do, but you're right. We don't need them.

Standard-bearer is a great way for a noncombatant to see the scrap from the inside with minimal risk. Water-bearers are thoroughly appreciated, and get the second-best view of the action since they are pretty close, but the standard-bearer gets the best view. He or she is in the midst and yet safe, because they are off-limits in most battles. (Fighters don't get a good view of the action: we tend to have tunnel vision relating to about four people directly in front of us, and the rest of the battle is just surroundsound!)

Despite the horror stories about getting people out of their armour, the way a squire really earns their pay is dressing the knight. Most can get out of armour with minimal help, and you can stand back as the really grungy bits fall away, but the difficult part of wearing armour is getting into it! But your knight will instruct you with each piece, and tell you how tight it needs to be, until you've learned the technique.
Of course he has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives - it's 1183 and we're barbarians.

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Post by Scraggles »

think at rockingham, the "knights" outnumbered the archers and other foot soldiers, love the way some people like to portray re-enactment as being accurate :)

most groups need more archers, but then some might object to women archers or cross dressing :)

archers need less expensive euqipment as recall archers only ever shoot other archers and they never shoot soldiers, even if the soldiers are well within range as the blunts might get broken, so should be safe, but a helmet is required. Getting shot in the head does hurt !

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Post by Skevmeister »

Wayland2002 wrote:
Skevmeister wrote:I have to say Wayland I am very suprised by your comment on your pauldrons
I hadn't realised this was such a "sensitive"subject, but I really honestly can't take my helmet off when I wear them, I also didn't realise it was a problem as I see plenty of other people being helped off with helmets and or mail coifs.

I can raise my arms above my head, thats not a problem, what I can't do is raise and bring my arms inwards, there is no physical way this can be done. The pauldrons extend from my neck to halfway down my upper arm and this restricts certain movements.

I can't quite see why this seems to be winding so many people up, if it doesn't affect them why moan.
Wayland

I am not wound up by it I am just quite suprised. BUt I have to say on reviewing your pictures I can see what your saying, and looking at later period Pauldrons they would restrict access, to your helmet. I am going to do some more research, into this now, tho' as I am keen to see if this is a gerenic problem with Pauldrons, or the fact that it gets worse over time as the styles change tho. But nice Pualdrons btw way anyway.

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Wayland2002

Post by Wayland2002 »

I am not wound up by it I am just quite suprised.
That wasn't aimed at you, I was just getting irratated by the people who seem to enjoy "splitting hairs"

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Post by Cat »

Or indeed, dismembering rabbits.
Wich brings me neatly onto what I really wanted to say which is:
NIGEL, YUKKK!

Lidi, we need more archers. Really. But banner bearer is more fun, as numerous blokes have sed.
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Post by m300572 »

"Can we move on peas"... don't get me started on how hard it is to get mushy peas out of a maille coif!!!!!!!
Obvious - employ Lidi as your squire and hand her the mushy-pead article saying "Squire, get this clean or it'll be no gruel for you tonight!!"
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Post by Tuppence »

think at rockingham, the "knights" outnumbered the archers and other foot soldiers, love the way some people like to portray re-enactment as being accurate

most groups need more archers, but then some might object to women archers or cross dressing

everybody wants a big sword :roll: :roll: :roll:

and we don't - talk to simon d about shooting :lol:
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Post by Zachos »

I want a smaller sword. The one I have at the moment is too long for only one hand.

I did some banner bearing the other week. It was so much more tiring than fighting: I suppose you don't get the adrenaline running like you do with combat. No one would fight me either. Was very upset.
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Post by lidimy »

So looks like the choices at current are archer (needed) and Squire (wanted) and banner person (necessary)

How expensive are longbows? I need to know whether it is the kind of thing one would get for normal birthdays, or one reserved for 18ths, lol! A bit of a vague question, but if we go along the lines of what someone else said, buying few but really good bits of kit rather than replacing, how much roughly for a really good longbow? Doesn't it need to be of yew? And does a bow come with a quiver of arrows or are they bought seperately? Obviously would be looking for a good verifiably authentic stockist :D

Needs thought though - I don't want to charge into anything :o

I don't suppose it would be normal for a Squire to be the banner bearer also...?

Thanks graham, it's interesting to see each persons definition of what a Knight is. Maybe it is as diverse a term as it was then?

Lidi :D
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Wayland2002

Post by Wayland2002 »

lidimy wrote: How expensive are longbows?
They can be quite expensive but if you PM Miel you could ask how much he would charge you. I think Malley's husband makes bows as well so she might be worth a PM.

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Post by Zachos »

The MSS provides arrows to its archers for demonstrations and battles, as far as I'm aware. Other groups may do this too, but I'm pretty sure the MSS does.
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Post by Tuppence »

No one would fight me either.

That's because nasty things happen to anybody who tries to take a standard without it being prearranged. A real punch up involving words like 'come back here with that you froggy ********' last time I saw one....

Bows - not my field of expertise, but I think roughly a couple of hundred quid.

Arrows extra. Cost largely depends on whether authenti head (costly) field pile, or red head (or other speed blunt) -less costly.
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Post by lidimy »

Bows - not my field of expertise, but I think roughly a couple of hundred quid.
That'll be an 18th then!

But it would be a worthy investment, I guess?
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Post by Zachos »

I understand you can get cheaper ones. I'll check this weekend for you. I need to look for another mate.
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Post by lidimy »

Thanks a lot :D
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Post by Dave B »

Come over too the Darkside.

CANNONS. there's always someone needs an extra person on the crew, and you get the adreniline rush of hand to hand combat without all the hard work.

Trust me that the first time you fire a cannon you will get adrenal. normally followed by jumping up and down and shouting 'do it agian, do it again'
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