Page 1 of 2

Straight trumpet music

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:36 pm
by craig1459
I've just picked up a straight trumpet from a charity shop (in one of those "I've got to have that!" moments)

Despite being a fairly experiencd brass player I am struggling with it but I'm sure I'll find my mojo.

Can anyone recommend any pieces which involve it from the fifteenth century, or would it have been a simple fanfare instrument i.e. to play everytime our captain appears?!

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:31 pm
by busy mole
If your trumpet has no slides or valves it will be limited to notes of the harmonic series, and so could play simple fanfares or stuff as complex as that played on a bugle. More complex pieces of music, would be dificult, or at the very least restricted. It could be fun composing your own though!, although not medieval the most complex I have come across is the Post Chasse from the 18th 19th cetury ish.

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:02 pm
by craig1459
Cheers Mole
Yeh - I played the bass bugle/baritone horn many moons ago and know a few tunes through that. This has got a fairly small bore compared to what I was used to and at the moment I can only play one note!

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:24 pm
by Sir Fletcher Phelps
craig1459 wrote:Cheers Mole
Yeh - I played the bass bugle/baritone horn many moons ago and know a few tunes through that. This has got a fairly small bore compared to what I was used to and at the moment I can only play one note!


Why not have a crack at "We're Fun With Knives""?!!!

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:46 pm
by Cream-T
As no-one stated the obvious yet:

I didn't know there was much difference between straight and gay trumpet music! :P

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:56 am
by Wayland2002
Cream-T wrote:As no-one stated the obvious yet:

I didn't know there was much difference between straight and gay trumpet music! :P


I resisted that..............it was hard but i managed it.

Craig

Im not sure trumpets were used to play music in the 15th century,they seem to be more like a signaling device similar to a hunting horn.I think that the closest musical instrument was the cornet, not brass ones (or ones for putting ice cream in) but ones made from horn or wood, with a cup mouthpiece and finger holes like a recorder.
sackbutts ( like a trombone) seem to be the most popular brass instrument.

I must admit it would be good if you could find out about the trumpet signals that were used, it would add authenticity to drill etc.

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:35 am
by Nigel
THere are very very few trad trumpet players outside the services

However my father happens to be one I'll copy him you mail and see if he replies

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:53 pm
by craig1459
"Two kinds of ensemble using trumpets came to be differentiated: the shawm-trumpet ensemble (or alta musica, see ALTA (I); the trumpet was later replaced by a trombone) and the trumpet-kettledrum ensemble (the kettledrums appeared towards 1500). The shawm-trumpet ensemble first used the trumpet to play a drone bass (for examples of such music from the 13th and 14th centuries see Heyde, 1965, pp.163–4). The members of the trumpet-kettledrum ensemble performed in a genre named after the Roman classicum, an improvised mingling of various sounds, which by dint of sheer resonance was effective in encouraging troops and frightening the enemy. This type of ensemble became an élite corps of musicians, partly because of its military role in giving signals and performing courier duties."

Full article with references: http://trpt.net/tarrtrpt.htm

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:22 pm
by Cat
I piched up several non-homosexual horns (sounds SO wrong!) at a charidee shop last year, and can get 2 and a half notes out of each.
Parp! PARRRRP! (a fifth or so higher) and strangled duck.

They have been trialled on the field, but tend to worry the soldiers.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:51 pm
by craig1459
I don't think they'd be much use on the WOTR battlefield - especially with the advent of gunpowder (and clankies!) It might look quite slick for bill displays or marches though. Provided I can graduate from strangled duck to the more dulcet tones of psycho mute swan that is...

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:36 am
by Wayland2002
Craig

If you get bored with your straight trumpet, we could always bring the sax along for Mrs 1459 to play.


.......... a saxophones not straight so does that make it a gay horn?

Your right Cat theres something very wrong about this whole idea.

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:52 pm
by Cat
As to loudness, the call carries surprisingly well. I think Rupert knows 'charge' and 'retreat', I'm sure somebody out there could take this further.

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:06 pm
by craig1459
Cool - I'll have to do some more digging then

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:02 pm
by Vicky
Hunting horn calls are published in several books on medieval hunting - the most easily accessible is probably 'The Hound and the Hawk' by John Cummins (including calls for retreat, chase etc) A lot of people have been talking about using hunting horn signals for directing men on the field for quite some time - but little has ever come of it as far as I know. It would be good to see though!

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:45 pm
by busy mole
Craig I don't know if this would be of any use to you. possibly a little US centred

http://www.tapsbugler.com/HistoryoftheB ... ugle1.html

trumpaphones

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:18 pm
by polthepot
:shock: I got a horn in a junk shop lately Craig, the man said it was a trumpaphone, I played it alongsiide my shawm and scared all the badgers in the near vicinity. To make a short story long mate ive become addicted and now ive got five! A few players using different length horns could play atune between them as they can only play 4 or 5 notes each. Anywho bring it along to Ordsall Craig, or have a blow on mine [if Emma dont mind].

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:11 am
by Gerald ye Herald
Craig Ive been using an old copper post horn for our events with knights et Armis, it is limited to range of notes but with practice you can come up
with a decent fanfare.

I would prefer a better one being as it got squashed/repaired.
Also tried to do the Starwars fanfares but it was nigh impossible to
get the range as compared to my old army bugle.

In my younger days I was involved with our local brass band Dad was deputy band master and teacher, sadly I have forgotten most of it now.

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:17 pm
by craig1459
Gerald ye Herald wrote:Craig Ive been using an old copper post horn for our events with knights et Armis, it is limited to range of notes but with practice you can come up
with a decent fanfare.

I would prefer a better one being as it got squashed/repaired.
Also tried to do the Starwars fanfares but it was nigh impossible to
get the range as compared to my old army bugle.

In my younger days I was involved with our local brass band Dad was deputy band master and teacher, sadly I have forgotten most of it now.


Gerald
I think that is what mine is too. I think the bore is too small for me now as I used to play baritone. The technique has gone as well! I'll keep tryin...

Polthepot - are you in Hautbois?

trumpaphones

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:05 am
by polthepot
:lolCraig ya nutter its me Smiffy a fellow Saville:

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:00 am
by craig1459
sorry - d'oh! :lol:

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:20 pm
by Dan of Britannia
I wonder, do any of our other readers get the horn in junkshops?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:20 pm
by Dan of Britannia
I know I do!

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:38 pm
by Medicus Matt
Dan of Britannia wrote:I know I do!


Ahhh, you're back then are you?
I've told you before, I won't have your sort around here, stinking the place out with your foreign food and widdling in the cupboards.
Disgusting I call it.

Bloody Romans.

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:34 pm
by Kate Tiler
Talking of straight horns...

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:35 pm
by Cream-T
Surely, this is one of the oldest records of someone drinking a yard of ale?! ;)

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:37 pm
by Andy T
Craig York Waites have a 15th cent style trumpet. Do you have a cavalry style trumpet or is it that long state trumpet as used by H Cav? Reason I ask is that the York Waites one is similar to but nowhere near as long as a fanfare trumpet-therefore the range and tone will be considerably different to a more modern one. I do reccomend you come oop north and have a look at the EMA shop in sunny Bradford-you're welcome to stay overnight over here in equally sunny Halifax and go there the next day.

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:38 pm
by Andy T
Cream T you don't sound wrong there cos brass players have a boozing tradition....... :twisted:

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:18 pm
by craig1459
I've just come back from Prague and saw some interesting musical illustrations in the Convent of St Agnes (big collection of medieval art)

1. A straight trumpet appreaing to be played along with a recorder or shawm. I'd been under the impression the trumpet at this point was just a fanfare or signalling instrument

2. A brass instrument with loops like a trumbone. Probably a sackbut of some description but it must have been a very early one

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:52 pm
by Gerald ye Herald
Thanks for that Craig I recently bought another longer posthorn (1meter)
all for the princely sum of £10! it splits in two for easier transportation.

Sounds grand too :wink:

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:14 am
by craig1459
craig1459 wrote:I've just come back from Prague and saw some interesting musical illustrations in the Convent of St Agnes (big collection of medieval art)

1. A straight trumpet appreaing to be played along with a recorder or shawm. I'd been under the impression the trumpet at this point was just a fanfare or signalling instrument

2. A brass instrument with loops like a trumbone. Probably a sackbut of some description but it must have been a very early one


I've got an illustration of an army attacking a castle from the sea with a number of looped trumpets playing on one of the boats

Alo picked up a proper mouthpiece so I can play mine now :twisted: