The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

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Brian la Zouche
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The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Brian la Zouche » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:44 pm

http://www.threeshiresmedieval.com/

late 14th cent to early 15th cent

they are the 1st to admit, not 100% living history level, but they are fun and friendly

combat, have a go archery, etc, etc



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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Hellequin » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:45 pm

Brian la Zouche wrote:http://www.threeshiresmedieval.com/
they are the 1st to admit, not 100% living history level


www.threeshiresmedieval.com wrote:As re-enactors, history is very important to us. The Three Shires Medieval Society therefore strives to represent as much historical fact as possible.

:wink:



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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Brian la Zouche » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:28 am

i could not agree more,

i was simply pointing what i was told by derrick, that ''they are not 100%'' living history level

this was not to imply they were rubbish, far from it in fact, :-D

:P



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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Nigel » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:27 pm

Brian la Zouche wrote:http://www.threeshiresmedieval.com/

late 14th cent to early 15th cent

they are the 1st to admit, not 100% living history level, but they are fun and friendly

combat, have a go archery, etc, etc


Really you do surprise me


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Brian la Zouche » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:32 am

yeah i know, but this forum is brill and i thought i'd not bring it down with negative comments, so although they are like i said friendly and fun, i didnt mean to be critical, simply saying what they themselves told me, ie: that ''they are not 100% living history level''

i just thought id mention it as i felt it was nice and honest of them to say so

i did NOT intend any slur, as theres enough forums out there that cater for those type of people who feel the need to post comments, with no intent other than flaming others



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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Bad Viking » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:31 am

I feel that it is important to support groups that - in a sense - may the first experience that some people may have of living history or history in general. At one end of the spectrum we have the totally immersed re-enactor who has consummate knowledge of his time period with all the kit and kaboodle to match and has invested vast sums of personal finances. On the other end there is the enthusiast - who may not be perfect but is trying and making a real effort and opening up history to people who may never ever contemplate looking any deeper into the subject.
I for one know that I'm not perfect in every detail, but when I see people trying and making things accessible for people, I know that what they are doing is a good thing and if it isn't 100 % correct in every detail - at least they have fired up a bit of curiosity and interest in history - which is a very dull subject for an awful lot of people !

Big up the the boys at Three Shires Medieval ! :D


I might be in the gutter....but I'm still looking up at the takeaway !.

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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Brian la Zouche » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:45 pm

ty, i wish i was as eliquent as yourself, as you have but it better than i ever could

i also think that with limited finances, we all do the best we can, ( unless you are lucky enough to be able to start from scratch with enough £ to go totally authentic from day one )

i know we all have view points, which may differ, but i keep telling myself, its a hobby we all share, and maybe i should try and be more supportive

hope alls well, still not met up with you all since the manor visit, keep on at me tho :D



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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Nigel » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:40 am

Interesting view points

Would accept some but would also challenge back that with limited finance you should consider everything before purchasing and that some of the arguements above are bizarre


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby EnglishArcher » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:08 pm

Whilst I'm generally a belligerent, anal-retentive misanthrope, I have no problem with groups who want to dress up, bash about, entertain a (lay) public, and hopefully encourage a few of them to learn more about history. After all, re-enactment is a hobby for most of us, not an occupation.

However, groups should be careful when advertising themselves through their websites as something they're not. Many groups make dubious statements like "We strive for complete accuracy in our re-creations" when, in fact, they are ignorantly - and dogmatically - peddling a bunch of myths, half-truths and re-enactorisms. People who know their subject can see through this sort of BS and that, ultimately, does your credibility no good at all.

I would suggest: be honest in your advertising. Tell people what you ARE, not want you would WANT to be; or what you think people will HOPE you'll be. There's no shame in not being 100% historically accurate - after all, as others have said, it costs a LOT of time and money; that many of us just don't have. And for many events it's just not necessary.

I've known of a few groups who have pushed the whole "authentic Living History" aspect to customers who know their stuff and consequently will not be asked back to events.

There's an old adage in business: you only get to screw over a customer once.


English Warbow: When you absolutely, positively have to kill every muthaf**king Frenchman on the field. Accept no substitutes.

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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Biro » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:56 pm

I find that a reasonable level of authenticity doesn't really cost much (if any) more than otherwise to be honest. The main expense is footwear.
Just needs someone in the group who knows their stuff to define their authenticity level and the rest of the group willing to be guided.
Of course it depends a lot on choice of period - some can cost a lot more than others to get a basic level of 'thenty gear. And of course, you can then go on to spend a lot more for custom-made gear+accessories to really stand out on the authenty-front.

But then, if you've started off a group with it being a learning experience for all, from the start - it becomes a very difficult thing to turn that corner to join the authenticity road - a lot of it being down to people having gear that they have spent money on, that they like - but they can no longer use... Not a lot of people take well to that - human nature and all.

But I see authenticity as a journey, not a state. It's always a journey - because lets face it, everyone has something they can improve on - no matter how far they are on that journey. I have a ton of respect for those who are far on in that journey - but I also respect those who are fairly new to the path - as long as they don't stop too early :-)

Me? I sit in the middle. We try to do authenty-on-the-cheap and found that It's a lot cheaper to buy the right stuff from the start than it is to replace it later in the day. And even on a budget, once the basics are there, you can still keep adding to it and improving - even if it's just a buckle a year - as long as you're still on that path, it's all good.

*Discalimer.. I'm only commenting in general, not on the 3 Shires. 14/15th isn't my period and I don't know it enough to possibly comment.



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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby EnglishArcher » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:17 pm

Learning how to QUESTION and learning how to LOOK are two skills that cost very little money; and can make all the difference.

And in many cases that's the main differentiator between the inspiringly-excellent groups and the laughably-awful groups.


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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Nigel » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:21 pm

Brian

your leap wasn't that big agree with your comments BUT I would say you lot never stop asking questions and if you recall LEEK the 3 shires were there too


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Biro » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:33 pm

Nigel wrote:Brian

BUT I would say you lot never stop asking questions


What makes you say that? :)



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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Nigel » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:26 pm

er expereince


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby nest » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:18 pm

I've been reading this with interest as I'm a member of a group that is not a Living History group. I agree with Biro's comments about it being a journey, a facinating and enjoyable journey and one that I emabarked on at the age of 50. Over the last 18 months or so I've been trying to learn as much as I can about the 13/14th century and Mr Nest and me are always on the lookout for reference material so that, whilst our encampment isn't strictly authentic, we don't peddle myths and misinformation to the public.

I'd like to give huge thanks to everyone who contributes to the Living History forum, I've read some of the boards from start to finish and have learned so much here and just want to continue having some of the best fun that I've ever had.

Nest



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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Brian la Zouche » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:39 pm

erm, i'm NOT in the group,

i simply saw them at derby and the crowd ( including myself ) enjoyed them,

they WERE fun and friendly and i was impressed they said that they were NOT up to living history standard

and i thought id say so, i posted their link as a thank you for an enjoyable day ( no i didnt read their web site, as no matter what they put, it wouldnt have changed anything about how the day was ! )

dont tell me these forums dont allow that !!

or are we supposed to trawl through posts to find something we can pick at ?

i know most of you DONT but theres always 1` or 2

but hell with it!! if i see something i've enjoyed im still gonna say so

i know one nob head who never fails to read into my posts something thats not there, if hes got a problem im sure he'll tell me to my face !!!



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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Brian la Zouche » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:57 pm

just read their web site

YES it does say ''history is very important to them''

i wonder how anyone reads that as ''being authentic is very important to them '' ??

i guess most people make their minds up AND then read into things as they wish

i've probby missed the bit where they say they are AUTHENTIC,and have ALL authentic gear/ clothing etc but ya know what........... IDGAF

they were fun and friendly

and any other group i watch, if the same i'll f in say so



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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Nigel » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:07 am

Hi Nest

“I've been reading this with interest as I'm a member of a group that is not a Living History group.”

Interesting comment at what point do you stop becoming a living history group? If you have an encampment and open it up to the public surely by definition you are living history? I ask this as a member of the public surely would not know the difference? Perhaps worthy of a thread on its own at what point do you stop becoming living history and how do you communicate this?

I agree with Biro's comments about it being a journey, a fascinating and enjoyable journey Yes I would agree with that but also say that if you know your encampment isn’t strictly authentic you know what’s wrong or you suspect what’s wrong so you surely have the ability to put it easily right by not using/displaying that item.. My group wander into your periods of interest quite a bit if we can help drop us a line.

As to the rest in my mind I have a responsibility in my portrayal to get it right I am enthusiastic about history I have passion for authenticity and a drive to get it as right as I can. I am very fortunate that my group seems to attract those with a similar outlook and every year we slowly get bigger.

Now regarding this group I have seen this group close up too they may be “fun” but they are also jarringly inaccurate and when I saw them they had no such disclaimer.

Regards

Nigel


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Tod » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:16 pm

The fact is the public go to an event, they see re-enactors and the camps. If the group is really bad the public will know that they've taken a wrong turn and ended up at the circus. If a group has half passable kit the public thinks that’s what people wore and did and how they lived. The good groups I know aren't 100% authentic in that no one has time machine so can't be 100% right. On the other hand you can try as hard as possible to create an experience for the public which is as close as it can be. The other alternative is that you set up some tents and sit about answering questions, the lack of LH kit other than tents means you verbally create the experience.

There are plenty of groups that fail on both of the above, the camp is made up of a mix of periods and what they've found in the junk shops, the kit is the wrong fit the wrong patterns and the wrong materials but it looks "old". What they tell the public is half made up or they are uneducated guesses. I used to think this was only in a few periods but it’s not, for every good group there are 10 rubbish ones who should go and do LARP (no offence to LARP intended) or at least change their name to the Knights of Camelot/55 Musketeers/The Big shield club/Any old armour/Fantasy Pirates/Warriors of Long Ago etc etc. What they don't realise that is if they did do that they could wear whatever they wanted, make everything up and IMO get bookings.

If there is one thing that always impresses me with any group it is when they have made an effort to get it right. Cheap crap kit and lies aren't recreating the past, but put them in a fantasy event and they fit fine.



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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby nest » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:12 pm

Hi me again,

I guess I should have written that the group doesn't advertise itself as a Living History group although there are some strict rules re kit eg footwear, period shoes/boots or barefoot, appropriate head covering, fabrics for clothes and so on. Mr Nest has a basic woollen tunic and split hose with linen undergarments. However, from this site I've found that we shouldn't really be using cast iron cauldrons and that some of our baskets, on closer inspection, are cane and not willow. There are some chests which are from DIY store kits and wooden bowls that are not hand turned native english wood.

What are peoples pet hates with regards to inauthenticity in a camp?

Nest
Ps thanks for your offer of help Nigel



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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby EnglishArcher » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:37 pm

What are peoples pet hates with regards to inauthenticity in a camp?


Oh, you've opened the floodgates, here!

My current top 10. It probably changes daily. In fact, it's changed three times before I even posted.

1) Baggy hose
2) 'Nobility' slobbing around in their underwear (but hey, they've got a hat on! - see (8) below)
3) Women in mens' hoods.
4) 'Peasants' wearing dark green, dark blue and purple.
5) Woollen 'pourpoints'
6) Victorian longbows
7) Archers shooting "12 arrows a minute"
8 ) Those stupid little woollen 'pill hats' that men seem to wear all the time
9) "I stole it on the battlefield" and/or "It was a gift from my lord"
10) Kitchens populated entirely by women


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Re: The 3 Shires 14th- 15th Cent

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:52 pm

<I DONT WANT TO BE A B***cks BUT MAYBE PEPES WOULD LIKE TO TURN TO THE 1100-1500 FORUM AND CONTINUE THE DEBATE THERE.>
That was me with a mod head on, so it was.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!


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