Pirates Stuff and such.......

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Dreadnought

Pirates Stuff and such.......

Postby Dreadnought » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:08 pm

Hi All,

Wonder if anyone can help me out a wee bit? Here goes

does anyone have, or know where I can obtain/purchase/beg/borrow a pattern for an 18th C Frock coat?Pirate coat and breeches from?

Scoured ebay (for a laugh) and only came up with fancy dress :cry:

Many thanks in advance

Dreads



Dreadnought

Postby Dreadnought » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:09 pm

sorry :oops: forgot to mention size ish 46/48 chest



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nutmeg_bec
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Postby nutmeg_bec » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:54 pm

If you/someone you know is any good at altering patterns, you couldn't go far wrong with a copy of THE CUT OF MENS CLOTHES by Norah Waugh, but it's pretty expensive. There's a number of websites with scans taken of various patterns contained within (all taken from exactant garments, or represent tailors patterns [how to make the best use of cloth, rather than to-scale patterns]).

In terms of generic 18th Century, I'd say pirates of the Caribbean has everything from 1730-1800 somewhere in there, so it's interesting to look at. Pirates would simply be wearing the civillian clothing of the day, so virtually any illustrations could help.

Try typing justacorps (or variants on the spelling) into a google search
and if you're really desperate, you could do worse than unpicking a (fairly tight fitting) shirt and using that (pinned to a large sheet of paper) to base your pattern on.
K, that's all i can think of for now :lol:



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Re: Pirates Stuff and such.......

Postby Karen Larsdatter » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:05 pm

Dreadnought wrote:does anyone have, or know where I can obtain/purchase/beg/borrow a pattern for an 18th C Frock coat?Pirate coat and breeches from?

Go to Reconstructing History patterns; she has a few options for coats and breeches.



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Postby Shadowcat » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:08 pm

Bear in mind that the heyday of "real" piracy was over by around 1730, and most of the really famous ones, Teach for example, lived mainly in the 17th century.

We have a guy on here who has a Pirate website, but right now I cannot remember the name of it.

S.



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Postby frances » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:10 pm

Dear Dreadnought, If you would like some natty tailor-made stuff do get in touch. Whereabouts in the country are you? and when do you want the outfit by?



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Shadowcat
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Postby Shadowcat » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:14 pm

Oh yes I can.

http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/

I made Greg's silk coat, and it had breeches and waistcoat.
http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/Justaucorps.htm

S.



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Postby Fluffster » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:20 pm

Have you tried Jackie at Cloked and dagger'd?

She did a blinding frock coat for Martin Cowley, not sure on the period thiugh.


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Postby Jackie Phillips » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:57 pm

Thank you Fluff, very kind of you to say so; Martins is one of many these days.

Although I use various of my own patterns now, I believe Dave Rushworth (Petty Chapman) do a good pattern for an early 18thC frock coat.

A quick google came up with his website http://www.pettychapman.co.uk/

It's not listed, but I'm sure a phonecall would yield results.

Jackie


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Postby kate/bob » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:17 am

I think it's simplicity that does a "dressing up" pattern, but it's a good start for the real thing as the basic shape is correct



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Postby grahamp » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:15 am

Shadowcat wrote:We have a guy on here who has a Pirate website, but right now I cannot remember the name of it.

S.


There is this one - http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/ukpiratebrotherhood/

and here
http://www.pyracy.co.uk/Links.htm[/url]


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Postby Foxe » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:46 am

Reconstructing History have also recently started a line of off-the-peg clothing, including sailors' gear, for the golden age of piracy era. And all sorts of other useful goodies, as well as their excellent pattern line.

http://www.reconstructinghistory.com


...and further this Informant saith not.

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Dreadnought

Postby Dreadnought » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:47 pm

Brilliant!!!!! Thanks to each and every one of you who posted, I will follow up some of the links and see what comes from there, and all things going well, post a photo of the finished look (would have used article there, but I'm a bit of an article anyway :lol: )

Again, many thanks you all. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



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Postby Foxe » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:07 am

Bear in mind too that if you're looking for an authentic rather than Hollywood impression then a lot of things which seem right probably aren't. For example, there isn't a lot of justification for many pirates running round in justacorps/frock coats, so if you're looking to be typical it's better to look at short sailors' jackets. A bit of research now could save you a whole lot of cash on the wrong kit.

Here to help if I can provide any information.


...and further this Informant saith not.

Foxe

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Postby squirrel » Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:46 am

i have used a simplicity pattern for pirate coats and pants with fab results no......4923 i have made quite a few now for ppl who are very happy



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Postby Shadowcat » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:24 am

Foxe wrote:Bear in mind too that if you're looking for an authentic rather than Hollywood impression then a lot of things which seem right probably aren't. For example, there isn't a lot of justification for many pirates running round in justacorps/frock coats, so if you're looking to be typical it's better to look at short sailors' jackets. A bit of research now could save you a whole lot of cash on the wrong kit.


However Bartholomew Roberts, who died in 1722, after an erratic chase by the Navy, is described as being "found dead ...wearing his battle dress, a crimson damask coat and breeches, a golden necklace and a red feather in his hat." (From "If a Pirate I Must Be..." the story of Bartholomew Roberts by Richard Sanders, just published.)

I like the sound of this pirate - he apparently only drank tea!

S



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Postby Foxe » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:39 pm

Oh yeah, there are occasional exceptions like Bart Roberts - but that's the point, they are exceptions. Hence my use of the word typical in my post. (Incidentally, primary source descriptions of Roberts' last outfit usually describe it as a waistcoat).

For example, when the three crews of Thomas Cocklyn, Howell Davis, and Olivier la Bouche captured Captain Snelgrave's ship off the coast of Africa they found three long coats in his chest and decided to keep them for themselves for going ashore in (when they wanted to dress posh). Cocklyn was a short man and was ridiculed because he ended up with the longest coat and it looked daft. The point is that he didn't have a better one, and he was a captain.


...and further this Informant saith not.

Foxe

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http://www.etfox.co.uk

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Postby Cat » Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:01 pm

I read recently (but arrgh, can't remember where) that many seafaring types shortened the front and sleeves of their coats so as to make moving about on board easier.


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Postby Foxe » Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:15 pm

One of the quite distinctive things about sailors' jackets of the 18th century was a long buttoned cuff reaching almost to the elbow, enabling them to roll them up. Is that what you're thinking of?


...and further this Informant saith not.

Foxe

'Don't be fooled by his general air of living in a skip'

http://www.etfox.co.uk

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Postby Tod » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:27 am

Pirates of the Carribean is to 18th century re-enactment what Braveheart is Scottish re-enactment of almost any period. Both good films as far as entertainment, but totally off the historical track.

Going by what some people wander around in at the re-enactment fayres - most of it is fantasy, very nice and really well made but nothing like the cut or construction of the 18th century clothing it is trying to be.
As Foxe and others said short (I think called Pea coats) were typical of sailors.

For patterns of coats and breeches try J P Ryan you can get the patterns from Townsends in America. IMHO I would not bother with the Petty Chapman patterns. The coats from them not very good and breeches patterns don't work - so I'm told by Lace Wars costume makers.

One thing to avoid like the plague is bucket top boots if you portraying some one at sea. The hint is in the name. But they are ideal for on land stuff, if you are playing some one well off!

I think that a lot of people are beginning to realise 18th century costume is so stylish, not that I'm biased :lol:



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Postby frances » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:22 am

It must be very comfortable and practical for the chaps, but for us ladies there is an awful lot of superstructure. And if your weight yo-yo's then one day it will fit nicely, and the next it will be impossible without three helpers!! And sitting down in a train, or in a carriage takes a special design of corset to avoid bruising of certain parts of the anatomy. That said, it IS one of the more elegant eras. I have to agree Tod.




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