Newbie question - Medieval clothing

[WhiteWolf]

Ok here we go

As some of you may know we are very new to all this, but are wanting to get started.

So my question is this....

Where can we obtain images and patterns for clothing for and Archer his better half and a 10 year old male?

Also what exactly would be needed?

I did say it was a newbie question.

WW

[Simon_Diment]

Hi WW

Try specifying what period otherwise you'll get inundated with well meaning advice from all and sundry

If it's early Medieval then I and my compatriats at Conquest can help with our period.

Cheers

Simon

[WhiteWolf]

Hi WW

Try specifying what period otherwise you'll get inundated with well meaning advice from all and sundry

If it's early Medieval then I and my compatriats at Conquest can help with our period.

Cheers

Simon

Hi Simon

Was thinking pre WotR (as I say still new to all this) but not sure 100%

How specific do I need to be? between 100 -150years or less?

Andy

[Drachelis]

If you are coming to Caldicot look me out at the Shadowlight Stall -got books of costume piccies that I use to create my designs that you can browse through. My stuff might be a bit high end for an archer (apart from padded jacks) but you can get an idea of what you need from the books and I can probably point you towards someone who does what you want if you aren't making it yourself

Cheryl
Shadowlight Designs

[His Grace, Duke Henry]

Start off with a troff through Sally Green Costumes.

I am making the wild guess that you are kitting out for later 15th century re-enactment. Commentary is added for the possiblity you are going C14th or early 15th (eg. the Agincourt campaign):

Gentlemen of honest yeomen stock need:

1. Shirt - plain, open sleeve (not cuffed), linen *Essential*
   Cheats:
   
   • Use Cotton (cheaper but linen is cooler in hot weather)
   • Cuffed sleeves - Check the 17th century list for the collarless shirts - you may find the open sleeve gets in the way of the bow but beware of authenti-azi protests if you do
2. Braies (underpants) - drawstring *non-essential* (not many societies insist that your underwear is 100% correct to start with)
   You should decide on the sort of hose you are wearing first, short braies for joined leg hose, long braies for single legged (see below)
   That's the first layer, now...
3. Doublet (Jacket-like garment) or Pourpoint (sleeveless version of the doublet) *Essential*
   Your call on this, a doublet is a good choice , but in really hot weather, they are insufferable and a pourpoint is a far better choice. Some archers have issues with doublet sleeves getting in the way and will opt for a pourpoint.
   A very nice doublet...
   
   BTW They are essential because your hose (leg covering) will be tied to them!!
4. Hose (leggings) *Essential*
   Depending on the era you are covering...
   • Later 15th C: Joined leg hose, Look like narrow trousers, with a codpiece at the front (get used to it).
     Never try making a pair of joined leg hose. Even with patterns. Life is to short, you will trash the first pair you ever make, buy, get somebody, anybody to make you a pair. I nearly lost an ear when we first tried making hose (story for some other time...). For your own sake, get a pair see how they work, find out how they work - then trymaking your own and see why I am not lying to you!!!
   • Earlier and 14th C: Single leg hose, look like just sleeves for your legs, with a gap between (long legged braies are really essential here if you are going to be shooting in public - otherwise you will get comments about it, trust me on this).
5. Shoes - pointy ones, leather *Essential* unless you enjoy standing on thistles in barefeet... No one will love you if you are wearing modern shoes.
6. A Hat - I have some fine round, pillbox-style in wool, most fitting, attach pilgrim badges in pewter to set them off.
7. Livery Coat *non-essential* but a dear friend in the colder, wetter weather at the beginning and end of the season ... in fact, all the way through it!
8. Cloak, hooded - *optional* but the only choice for round the campfire in the chill night air and drizzle

Ladies of similar status need:

1. Shift *Essential* This is a ladies underwear, M&S knickers underneath are not authentic and not even practical (leave it there, the rest is women's chatter <AHEM>)
2. Kirtle - simple, straight styled dress, laced to the front *Essential*
   Get someone to show you how to lace it up, it is the subtle difference between being respectable and being a tart...
3. Headcovering - a woman's hair should be covered unless she is unmarried (or advertising...)
4. Shoes & Cloak - See above

All the above obtainable through Sally Green Costumes. Making patterns for any historical era is brave and requires extensive knowledge of how the garments work. Even making from guides is not for the faint of heart but you should at once obtain Sarah Thursfield's "Medieval Tailors Assistant" and read it cover to cover before you even think of buying the cloth. Otherwise you are doomed to spend vast fortunes on wool to waste in futile efforts and potentially embarrassing failures.

To quote once more, as I always do, the still (happily) immortal Fox...

"This Easter weekend I've learnt something I already knew. An excellent illustration in fact in the difference between knowing something and understanding it. This weeks lesson is 'Making hose is harder than it looks.'" - Paul "Fox" Turner in email to me.

[WhiteWolf]

If you are coming to Caldicot look me out at the Shadowlight Stall -got books of costume piccies that I use to create my designs that you can browse through. My stuff might be a bit high end for an archer (apart from padded jacks) but you can get an idea of what you need from the books and I can probably point you towards someone who does what you want if you aren't making it yourself

Cheryl
Shadowlight Designs

Cheers Cheryl

We will do that, we're planning on coming across for the Sunday (rellies coming on the Saturday).

Your Grace you are a true Gent.

Thankyou for such a comprehensive reply.

Andy

[Dougie]

Those are words that should never have seen the light of day, duke and true gent. The world is truly sinking into anarchy !

[Vicky]

Are you planning to join a group? If so, I'd suggest that you join your chosen group first and ask what kit guidelines they may have - different groups put different interpretation on clothing, or may be portraying slightly different things in terms of date and class. It would be dreadful to buy all your clothing to have it picked through or deemed unsuitable by the group you wanted to join! Just a thought!

[WhiteWolf]

Cheers Vicky

I'd not thought of that.

Andy

[guthrie]

I have little to add, but a few quibbles with His Grace's post.
Hose are not that hard ot make, and you can make a get away with able pair in your first go, if you have someone helping you who knows what they are doing.

Which is where you, White wolf, would find joining a group a huge help in getting started. You don thave to stay with them forever, but having a bunch of like inded people with more experience to advise you is a great help.
Duke henry, do you not also sell clothes, and therefore have a conflict of interest which you should have flagged up first?

But you definitely need to ahve alook at books, and get talking to other re-enactors. Re-enacting is the only hobby I have come across so far where men can admire each others clothes and ask questions about material, fit, manufacturing techniques etc.

[gregory23b]

Don't spend a penny until you have seen the group you like, seriously. If you don't know what to have and cough up on say 1280s kit and join a WOTR group you will have wasted much of your cash.

The looking aorund for a group can be hard but also enjoyable as you get to suck them and see. And unless you are hooked to a particular era, say within a 50 years then go for the group that you like first and foremost, the group is much more important as they will be your family, sad I know but they do come in handy for a cup of sugar now and again, or a tent, table and chair.

whistles... pourpoints are doublets sleeveless or not...whistles....(see what you have let yourself in for WW )

Hose can be made using a pair of reasonably close fitting trousers, certainly to get the lines by pinning the back the excess at the back to create a seam (ignore side seams), it also gives you the crotch height for the fabric. Cut along new back seam and lay out and use as a pattern. It does mean the loss of a pair of kecks but an old pair would do. First timers suggest doing it with a friend. I use this method to make open hose (I find them comfortable and am genetically unable to make closed hose.

With open hose you can easily go up to 1470s although you would not be anyone that important and you would almost certainly need to have your rear covered (assuming male) with somethign resembling proper underwear and a long enough shirt. Height of hose varies they get higher as the 1400s progress, reaching 'magic' hose height in the early 16th, ideally they should not be self-supporting until post 1500 or so.

Linen is more readily available than it used to be and worth the small extra price and it means you only have to buy it once, also if you join a group ask what bulk purchasing they might do to keep cost down, they may be able to supply materials at a better rate.

Accessories can be a real pitfall too, I would counsel the same circumspection as with clothes, accessories are more hit and miss than clothing sometimes. Certain things are more worried about by groups than others, eg teak salad bowls rather than reasonably priced turned treen ware that looks ace and is useable across a wide area, some groups wouldn't know or care about it.

Conversely getting a hand made bronze kettle made originally on 2nd Feb. 1465 and not having any clothig is also no good either
But it is as hys Grace rightly says down to the standards of the group you join, I would challenge the authenti nazi bit as I am sure a medieval shirt would not pass muster on say a 1810 rifleman. It is all about what you want and what the group wants. (Medieval - wide remit is full of grey areas, the later you go the harder it is to get away with stuff).

But have a lot of fun meeting up with people, the best bit, spend when you need to and when someone you trust has advised you.

Best of luck.

[Tuppence]

Ok - am speaking as a re-enactor and costumer (just to declare any conflict of interest...

Really, really, really, join a group first.

Some groups allow machine stitching and cotton, some insst on correct materials (linen, wool) and hand finishing, some even insist on handsewn.
That plus 'medieval' can cover a huge range of styles.

whistles... pourpoints are doublets sleeveless or not...whistles....(see what you have let yourself in for WW )

pourpoint = pour point = for points = anything that had points...dum-de-dum (can't whistle) - but generally used to mean doublet

Then, when you've joined a group, get someone from the group to either talk you through what you need, and if you're planning on buying the kit, get someone to go with you - don't just take a traders word for it. That way whatever the groups standards, you know you'll fit them!

And books - be careful about books - check the credentials of the writer - some books still in print were written in the 19th century and are concoctions of Victorian romance!

If you're planning on making later medieval, get a copy of Sarah Thursfield's book, The Medieval Tailor's Assistant - have friends who started with this and understood every word.
(Hosen are not hard to make, but I still hate them!!)

Oh and don't get confused about the whole livery coat / coat thing - a livery coat is simply a coat made in heraldic colours (most late medieval groups have them).

Depending on how near to the fighting you plan on getting, you might also need some padding (and yes, I make it, but I'm not trying to sell you anything

For lots of info on all sorts of C15 stuff, try the Company of St George website - their newsletters are online, and they have a discussion board with all sorts of topics (re-enactment dweeb? me? nah!)

[Tony Stark]

Also try getting hold of The Medieval Tailors Assistant, it's invaluable as it covers everything you need clothing wise from early Medieval to late 1500's. Think its by Sarah Thurlston

[WhiteWolf]

Also try getting hold of The Medieval Tailors Assistant, it's invaluable as it covers everything you need clothing wise from early Medieval to late 1500's. Think its by Sarah Thurlston

Said big pink book is on order with Smiths, we should have it by Wednesday

then the fun begins

WW
Andy

[Sabine, Monty Levy]

If you need advise or just company with your sewing we are just on the other side of Glos.(Longney)!
We have got a lot of new kit to make over the winter!
PM me if you want to pop over!

[Lady Phoenix]

If you need advise or just company with your sewing we are just on the other side of Glos.(Longney)!
We have got a lot of new kit to make over the winter!
PM me if you want to pop over!

Mrs WhiteWolf here...
Thanks for that, we may well take you up on that offer I'm a bit daunted about the idea of getting started to be honest and I'd appreciate some encouragement!

Nix

[Sabine, Monty Levy]

It is not as bad as it looks...
looking forward to hear from you and to meeting you!

I think I have pm'd you, but I am not sure, as it says it is still in my outbox!?

[Lady Phoenix]

I think I have pm'd you, but I am not sure, as it says it is still in my outbox!?

PM received and replied to

Nix

[JC Milwr]

Sewing party?

[Sabine, Monty Levy]

What a nice idea!
Need to find a w/e! We are in between Churchdown and Bristol and, I think, we have got enough space!
That would be fun!

[WhiteWolf]

Us nooobies think this is a stonking idea

WW & Lady P

[Cat]

I'm in Chelters. Can I come and play too?

[WhiteWolf]

Sabine

"You're going to need a bigger house"



WW