Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

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The Methley Archer
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Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby The Methley Archer » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:18 pm

Hi all,

I'm looking for guidance as to where I can get information regarding kit, sewing patterns and such like for a rural farmer in the late 18th century (I do WOTR so haven't a clue). Whilst on my hols in Ireland, I took part in the locally organised re-enactment of the French landing at Kilcummin and Killala in 1798 in the dodgyiest of kit along with about 30 other locals in conjunction with normal French and English re-enactors. If it goes ahead next year I would like to be clothed to standard that I'm normally used to and happy with.

Just to give you an idea of how we looked, I'm in the centre with the light tweed jacket!
Killala pike men.jpg



All help welcome.


Daughters are a fathers punishment for being a man

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Phil the Grips
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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby Phil the Grips » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:23 pm

Search for "faction fighting" and you'll get a load of leads for contemporary images of Irish working men of the era. A good book to start with is John Hurley's "Shillelagh: the Irish Fighting Stick" which will have them all in too.

(If you need shillelagh instruction I'm passable with one and up for hire, and know a few other instructors...)


--Angels also carry weapons--
http://www.blackboarswordsmanship.co.uk/

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Bucket
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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby Bucket » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:17 pm

ok for late 18th century you will need:
latchet shoes or boots
stockings
full front breeches
shirt
waistcoat, (this should be of the shorter version and should just cover the buttons on the breeches)
either work jacket, or work shirt.
for best, a frockcoat.
neckerchief
hat: tricorn but as a farmer type, a Monmouth cap or wide brimmed hat would be better
hope this helps
Bucket



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Bucket
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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby Bucket » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:20 pm

also are you going to be at mortimers, as I have some original images of farm workers that you might like to look at, ill be at ILHF, or torm if you want to see them



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The Methley Archer
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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby The Methley Archer » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:28 pm

Thanks for that the both of you.

I won't be at mortimers, but would like to see the images. I am planning on attending one if the fairs though.


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Bucket
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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby Bucket » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:37 pm

let me know which one and ill bring them along there ink and water colour sketches,



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The Methley Archer
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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby The Methley Archer » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:39 am

yep, will do. What about sewing patterns; where could I get them that's not from the states?


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sally
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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby sally » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:36 am

come and see me at ILHF or NLHF and I'll show you some hats and stockings that might be suitable, (I also do knitting patterns if you prefer to make your own)



And So To Bed
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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby And So To Bed » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:59 am

The Methley Archer wrote:What about sewing patterns; where could I get them that's not from the states?


Petty Chapman do some suitable C18 and Napoleonic patterns and they're fairly easy to get hold of in the UK eg Caliver Books etc. Kannik's Korner do more detailed patterns for men's shirt, trousers, slops and short jacket but aren't that widely available. They are reasonably accurate though with good notes and are easier to use though the armholes sometimes run small. Norah Waugh's book 'Cut of Men's Clothes' has some useful period patterns and drafting diagrams if you can cope with scaling them up and altering them to fit modern figures. It's usually available on Interlibrary Loan if your local one doesn't have it.

Paul Meekins also stock the C18 and early C19 ranges of Reconstructing History which are often well-reviewed. Personally I find them overpriced with poor instructions, hit-and-miss research and dodgy drafting and grading. Sizing can be weird and sometimes the lines on patterns don't even meet. Some people who have been even slightly critical of RH patterns online received scathing personal attacks from fans of the patterns, which doesn't make for honest reviews. I don't recommend them. But they'll do in a pinch if you've nothing else.


....and so home and to supper, and so to bed.

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The Methley Archer
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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby The Methley Archer » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:44 pm

Again, thanks for all your suggestions.


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Bucket
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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby Bucket » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:59 pm

the main thing that I have found is that you need to make sure that you really fit the garments to you, by the end of the 18th century a lot of the items i.e waistcoats and coats etc were well fitting especially on torso and arms, also breeches should be tight to the thigh. Personally I haven't yet found any patterns that truly reflect the period, but then I've been lucky and have got a look at the real thing in a couple of collections, find that that has really helped. (just got back from handline an early 19th century frockcoat, my project for kelmarsh next year...)
saying that if there is one book I would advise then I would go with Cut of Mens clothes, and to save you money here is an online link to a pdf copy of it :-)
http://www.reenactor.ru/ARH/PDF/The_Cut.pdf



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The Methley Archer
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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby The Methley Archer » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:31 pm

Thanks Bucket. I've not looked at it fully but it seems it describes gentlemans clothing. Do you know if a simple worker would be the same style but with less ornate material or facings, if any?


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Bucket
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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby Bucket » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:19 pm

as far as im aware the forms are right, but I think you should think of a jacket rather than frockcoat and I don't think cut of mens clothes has a pattern for it, although if you make a sleeved waistcoat that is a bit loser than your waistcoat then you want go far wrong. The breeches and waistcoat patterns are fine as well. Hope this helps.r



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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby Shadow7cat » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:40 pm

There was a big trade in second hand clothes, both men's and women's, at this time, so using gentry patterns, but allowing them to become a little shabby might work. Although I agree with Bucket about probably not a frock coat.
The book below might be useful - I don't have it so can't review it for you but hear it is good.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Dress-Peopl ... 0300121199

S



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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby And So To Bed » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:12 pm

The short jacket is the most likely option. Kannik's Korner do a men's 1770-1800 short jacket pattern based on their own research of original garments and pictures. It must be sold by someone in the UK, I've seen copies floating around at a couple of fairs in the last year or two.


....and so home and to supper, and so to bed.

And So To Bed
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Re: Looking for guidance Late 18C male worker

Postby And So To Bed » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:17 pm

And I know this is annoying grumpy old git territory but it has to be said. It's so disappointing someone posted a download link to a book which is in copyright in the US and most of Europe including Russia. Norah Waugh put a lot of hard work into her books and there are still people alive who knew her. If you can't buy one order a copy from your local library. At least that way the book still receives royalties so publishers will keep it in print. Or buy one second-hand and stimulate the book trade.

Various authorities on textiles, armour and costume both living and dead (Sarah Thursfield, the Cunningtons etc) have been victims of copyright theft by costumers and re-enactors uploading chapters and whole books online. Free downloads lose publishers money: too much and they will stop producing titles with such limited sales. If it was a multi-million copy bestseller it might just be understandable though not excusable. But this is not a single by Rihanna or Dan Brown's latest god-awful toilet fodder. In a niche market like this every sale matters and theft is completely unjustifiable. Please don't bother with the lame "I'm poor and they've got loads of money anyway" or "everyone else does it" excuses. Get caught stealing £60 from a bookseller and you'd pay for it one way or another. Dress it up anyway you like. Theft is theft.

Here endeth the lesson. Getting off the soap-box and going to eat biscuits in the corner. Mmm. Biscuits.


....and so home and to supper, and so to bed.


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