Wambuis van 'zwartsaaijen' in the Rijkmusuem

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Dathi
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Wambuis van 'zwartsaaijen' in the Rijkmusuem

Postby Dathi » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:35 pm

Found this in the online Rijkmusuem collection that looks interesting

http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/collectie/zoe ... 73&lang=nl

Google transscrambler says that this is a man's coat from 1680 ?

Any thoughts ?



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steve stanley
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Re: Wambuis van 'zwartsaaijen' in the Rijkmusuem

Postby steve stanley » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:51 pm

IF.....the date is right,it could be the 'missing link'....We know short jackets were worn by labourers and sailors in the 18thcent.....there's been an assumption that they were used from the introduction of the long coat in the 1660's...but without examples.....If it wasn't for the fancy cuffs,I would have said it was a 1640's soldier's coat...??


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Re: Wambuis van 'zwartsaaijen' in the Rijkmusuem

Postby Dathi » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:45 pm

The lining looks interesring, somewhat like toweling that's worn down a bit. The gores at the bottom of the body puzzled me, it made me think of the linen ladies'jacketsfrom earlier in the 17th century.

Google Translate gives:-

"The doublet is part of a costume, see for pants: BK-NM-5525 (not found on 02/09/1996). Bijgaand briefje: "molkwerum (?), Trienke Boerma, 1680 of 1688, begin 1780, (...onleesbaar) Prd Bergen". The attached note: "Molkwerum (?) Trienke Boerma, 1680 or 1688 and early 1780, (illegible ...) Prd Mountains. Zie voor een soortgelijk kostuum: BK-1973-379-a/b. For a similar costume: BK-1973-379-a / b. "

Which is puzzling. Someone with a better grasp of Dutch needs to chip in on this as this suggests 3 possible dates. The "pants" that made up the rest of this suit appear to have vanished prior to a stock check in 1996 but a similar suit exists under the ref BK-1973-379 -a/b which I can't find online....



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Re: Wambuis van 'zwartsaaijen' in the Rijkmusuem

Postby Merlon. » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:06 pm

Per the musuem website they bought it in March 1882, The inference is that the attached label has three dates on it as listed. Welcome to the minefield of unknown provenance



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Re: Wambuis van 'zwartsaaijen' in the Rijkmusuem

Postby Shadowcat » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:18 pm

Is everyone sure it is actually a man's jacket? With the less than ideal provenance it could be a woman's jacket, I'd have thought.

S.



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Re: Wambuis van 'zwartsaaijen' in the Rijkmusuem

Postby steve stanley » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:06 pm

Shadowcat wrote:Is everyone sure it is actually a man's jacket? With the less than ideal provenance it could be a woman's jacket, I'd have thought.

S.


You could well be right..........


"Give me a tent and a kettle

Snowshoes and axe and gun

Send me up in Grand River

Steering by star and sun".

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Re: Wambuis van 'zwartsaaijen' in the Rijkmusuem

Postby Jackie Phillips » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:47 pm

Shadowcat wrote:Is everyone sure it is actually a man's jacket? With the less than ideal provenance it could be a woman's jacket, I'd have thought.

S.


It's extraordinarily like the jacket in the Tudor Tailor book http://www.tudortailor.com/tww.htm


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Re: Wambuis van 'zwartsaaijen' in the Rijkmusuem

Postby Dathi » Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:12 pm

The blurb has been translated for us on Facebook and goes

"Provenanced as having once belonged to Trienke Boerma (a woman's name) who died in 1680 or 1688. The rest is illegible, but possibly means first recorded in 1780 as an item in an inventory. Its made of linen and silk, short length, three gores, 40 buttons of which 17 are missing, long sleeves with seven buttons each and added braid on seams. "

So, yes. Google transcrambling messed it up and got it wrong. It's a ladies jacket



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Re: Wambuis van 'zwartsaaijen' in the Rijkmusuem

Postby Wim-Jaap » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:13 am

the similar set is found here... it was either a or b at the end.so a copy paste and search on the whole number doesn't give results.

http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/collectie/zoe ... -A&lang=nl

Wambuis van zwart laken, onderdeel van herenkostuum. Getailleerd met een korte, door drie ingezette spieën uitspringende schoot. Hoge ronde hals, knoopsluiting middenvoor van een aaneengesloten rij van knoopjes. Lange gladde mouwen, van onder met sluiting van zeven knoopjes. Bij de schouder een aangezette bragoen, neerhangend om de schouderlijn af te ronden, versierd met rijtjes van geborduurde trensjes. Bolvormige knoopjes met stermotief. Voering van grove, donkerbruine wollen stof.

Doublet made of black "laken" (a sheet like material... so probably linnen), part of a gentlemans suit.
To the waist length, with a short, outstanding "schoot" (don't know the translation... I thing gusset) of 3 pieces.
High round collar, buttoned at the mid front with a continous row of buttons.
Long smooth sleeves, with a closure of seven buttons.
At the shoulder a fitted "bragoen" (flap i guess), hanging down to round of the shoulderline, decorated with rows of embroidered "trensjes" (tunnel like).
Domeshaped buttons with a starmotif.
Lined with coarse, darkbrown Wool.

Sorry for the bad translation, but I'm not that much into old sewing terms.

Greenthings,

Wim-Jaap


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Re: Wambuis van 'zwartsaaijen' in the Rijkmusuem

Postby Chris T » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:28 am

A interesting item (as are all originals)........

I would say that it is of a fairly normal design for a 1630 - 1650 ladies jacket, but certainly not like any mens item I have seen...



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Christabel
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Re: Wambuis van 'zwartsaaijen' in the Rijkmusuem

Postby Christabel » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:38 am

How do you think the buttons were made, and of what? They look like the knots of braid you get in modern cufflinks to me, squinting hard at the photo.




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