Debra Lough Costumes review

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Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Templar Knight » Tue May 04, 2010 5:16 pm

Debra is awsome, I asked her to do me a 13th Century gambeson and was very pleased with that so then ordered basically my full Templar kit which is totally wicked aswell. I based it on the Osprey Knight Templar book image of a Templar from 1170. When I went to collect my gambeson I tried it on and any changes needed could be addressed, luckily it was fine but for some reinforcement put in the shoulder which is good to be able to do there rather than take it home and be stuck with doing it myself. So now I then got the rest of the kit which I orded later on consisting of arming cap, coif, shirt, undertunic, mantle/habit , feeted hoes and braes and the woolen belt they wore. In all upper body items I asked for extra room for growth because of my young age so I have good room to grow into it in the arms and chest. This kit is going to be used from horseback aswell so the spilts all allow for very good movement, I was going to do the splits in some of the photos to show the flexibility but the grass was wet and my dad told me off lol. They are reinforced aswell at the splits for well strength. Debra and Nigel even cross referenced it with the Templar Rule so the details were right.

Thankyou so much Debra and Nigel I am happy to say I will be back for my 14th century arming garments :D

Ok pics are up now http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/MPFFPM/
Please say if there is a problem veiwing them


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Nigel » Tue May 04, 2010 7:23 pm

Hi Matt

Thanks very much photos look good looking forward to copies too please

Really liked the helmet too where did you get it ?

Nige


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Templar Knight » Tue May 04, 2010 7:44 pm

Well thats all the photos I have so if you want you can save them from off there and have full rights to them. If you cant for what ever reason I will email you, let me know. The helmet is quite intresting actually, I was at military fair the kind which have mostly ww2 stuff and lots of deactivated guns and medals and stuff and there is the odd one or two people who have some medieval stuff. This guy had a couple of helmets an armet and gladiator helmet and that one which he said he got off a friend because he was a Free Mason Knight Templar. So he just sold it to me with some persuasion and the right price. I recon it is one from Heron armouries because the armour mark is a bird and and a cross underneath but the stamp or etch mark has faded so hard to tell. Its nearly 5 mm thick in some parts so a pretty good helmet.


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Nigel » Fri May 07, 2010 7:58 pm

does look rather nice


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Templar Knight » Fri May 07, 2010 8:26 pm

too small for me now so going to be selling it soon I think, you can have first dibs if your are interested.


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby narvek » Fri May 07, 2010 11:16 pm

Nice kit TK and good job Debbie :thumbup:


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Nigel » Sat May 08, 2010 8:27 am

cheers matey I'll let her know

where've you been

got your pm will reply soon


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Brendan C » Sat May 08, 2010 11:04 am

With the greatest respect, think the cross might be a bit too big

But other than that, terrific stuff buddy. By far, the best interpreatation of Templar kit I think I have ever seen. Delighted to see the shield colours - well done that man

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Postby frances » Mon May 10, 2010 1:28 am

Nice doggie. Does s/he have an outfit too?



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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Templar Knight » Tue May 11, 2010 5:03 pm

Thanks Brendan, yeah I see your point, but the crosses are hard to figure out, the Templar rule doesnt give exact sizes nor does it say which style of cross to use as far as I believe different regions had there own styles. Can always be changed though which is the good thing , want to get saddle and barding done though then come back to that kit for anything else, need a kite or flat top kite shield with the black and white too.

Unfortunatley the dog doesnt have a outfit, but he could do with a muzzle at times so that is kind of an outfit I can get him :D


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Brendan C » Tue May 11, 2010 5:29 pm

Templar Knight wrote:Thanks Brendan, yeah I see your point, but the crosses are hard to figure out, the Templar rule doesnt give exact sizes nor does it say which style of cross to use as far as I believe different regions had there own styles. Can always be changed though which is the good thing , want to get saddle and barding done though then come back to that kit for anything else, need a kite or flat top kite shield with the black and white too.


Saddle and barding as well? Impressive stuff!

I'd go for the big flat top kite - earliest Templar Convent I've heard of in England is about 1136ish, so that shield would be spot on for it.

Looking forward to seeing all this stuff

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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Celebrinthil » Wed May 12, 2010 8:34 am

Good stuff!

Me and some chums in Skinner's have been thinking about doing 1170s Hosptiallers (mounted of course). Could be fun......



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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Andy R » Wed May 12, 2010 9:34 am

Ooooh, very nice..!!


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Colin Middleton » Wed May 12, 2010 1:15 pm

Very nice. How did you get on with the mail mittens?


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Templar Knight » Wed May 12, 2010 8:29 pm

Colin Middleton wrote:Very nice. How did you get on with the mail mittens?


Thanks all
Mittens where pretty easy, already made some before on my older hauberk , I made about 3 prototypes before doing them, they are padded but still flexible and look just as if they weren't padded. Mail for them is taken from spare around the top my chausses and then riveted onto the end sleeve and sewed on to the mitten.
I took a lot of photos of prototypes and seeing as a lot of people ask how to make a good pair ( I know I did) so I might make a little tutorial or something to help people out.


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Colin Middleton » Thu May 13, 2010 12:27 pm

I'd be very interested in a 'How to' guide. I've been experimenting with mufflers on and off for a few years now and haven't been entirely happy with the results. They always seem to gape cross the palm when I close my hands (not uncomfortable, just unexpected) and I can't work out how to stop that or get the 'fingered look', while stil protecting my hands properly.


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Tod » Thu May 13, 2010 4:25 pm

I'm just doing a belt and scabbard set for a Knights Templar (customer) if you are interested let me know and I'll email you pictures when its finished.



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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Templar Knight » Fri May 14, 2010 11:24 pm

Tod wrote:I'm just doing a belt and scabbard set for a Knights Templar (customer) if you are interested let me know and I'll email you pictures when its finished.


Yeah sounds great, would love to see pictures. Good luck with building them, hope they go as planned


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Brother Ranulf » Sat May 15, 2010 6:41 am

Just for comparison, this is St George kitted out as a Templar knight, depicted on the lower margin of an English map of Jerusalem produced around 1170. The details are worth examining very closely: round-topped nasal helmet, flat-topped kite shield, partial leg armour strapped around the back, no armour on the hands (although his comrade, St Demetrius, has that feature), long, white surcote with a typical cross of the period visible on shield and pennon - not maltese, but the kind known as "potent", but having more flaring arms than its later standard heraldic form. The "Saracens" in this scene are kitted out as European knights, so whoever drew it had probably never seen one.

Round-topped helmets were fashionable in England from the 1150s onwards; I don't know of any evidence for them before about 1155. Be extremely wary of the plates in the Osprey book - in plate C, said to depict the equipment of Templars in 1165, the baucant shield is mid-13th century and not a shape seen anywhere in 1165. Similarly the kettle helms and cutlery may be way out of their correct time frame.

Edit: That black-over-white shield design is an Osprey confusion. If you look at the illustration on page 25, it shows a fresco from the Templar chapel at Cressac with a knight charging with couched lance. His pennon bears exactly the same 12th century cross potent as seen in the map illustration below, but his shield bears a cross over an eagle (presumably adding the Templar cross to his own arms).The various seals of the Order in use in the 12th century also show shields bearing crosses. In fact, there is no 12th century evidence anywhere for the baucant design on Templar shields; there is certainly plenty of 13th century evidence for it, but not exclusively that design. Uniformity is a modern concept and the improbable ranks of identical Templars in plate F of the book is a result of painting too many identical wargames figures.
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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby The_Maille_Tailor » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:03 am

Mufflers are an a*se to say the least and Osprey's beautiful interpretations don't lend themselves kindly to those working in 3d.

I've found that if you can source a good generic sheepskin mitten, maybe reinforce the palm with another layer of leather, and then when you slit it lengthwise to about an inch behind the finger tips for access, reinforce the slit with a stiffer piece of thinnish (.5mm) leather which is bevelled all around and sew in.

You can also add another layer of sheepskin on the back for padding, it has been difficult finding proof for this due to its ability to rot in the archaeological record and to be recycled until destruction, but seems a good common sense solution.

IMG00117-20100603-0226.jpg
Maille mittens


I'll see if I can reduce the size of the other pics I have as I have some good pics of work I've been asked to do.
Last edited by The_Maille_Tailor on Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Colin Middleton » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:28 pm

That's interesting. Doesn't the re-inforcing strip reduce the flexibility of the hand? I'd have thought that it could make it quite hard to grip things with a 'stiff bit' down the middle of the hand.

I've theorised that if you sew a layer or two of hair-on sheepskin to the back of the glove, you should produce a sufficiently absorbant pad to protect you, with the mail added to it.

The other thing that I've tried is sewing a rand into the seam on the glove, then sewing the mail to that (wrapping it around to the front where possible). This gives good protection and seems to make it less likley for the thread to snap.


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby The_Maille_Tailor » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:34 pm

The leather is that thin that it seems to be ok as the client I made them for hasn't been back to me regarding any revisions.
The strip is oval in shape and basically overlaps the slit by an inch all around. Having tried it myself it actually moves with the closing of ther hand and helps to add a bit of grip against the inner of the glove.

It doesn't eliminate the gap 100%, but it does diminish it to such a level that it is hardly noticable.

Also, when you are gripping something, it is about 95%+ closed.
In an empty hand it assists removing the hand from the muffler.

If you PM me your addy, I may have some spare strips of leather I made up you can try?

I tend to knot the stitching every 4th or 5th stitch so if the thread does go, it doesn't take it all out and can be repaired.

As to the hair padding, I had a pair of gloves returned to me at Tewkesbury for repair as they had taken a rather nasty smack in training.
The solid link along the r/h index finger had bent to leave the shape of the sword's edge, whereas the customer was fine and dandy and most complementary about how well the gloves had worked.
I use sheepskin rug, trimmed down with a horse or beard trimmer to about 1" length of hair, and use the hair side against the hand as the top section of the glove, and something like deerskin or a thin pliable leather for the palm and underside of thumb areas.

Of course, for the budget gloves, I use pre made sheepskin gloves.

Best get back to my Viking essay!

Cheers for now,
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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Colin Middleton » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:38 pm

I do a lot of hobby leatherwork, so I've got quite a good supply of leather in various thicknesses, but thankyou for the offer.

I would be interested in seeing some photos of the construction method (or we could talk about it at Boot Camp if you'll be there). I'm always looking to make these things better!

Best wishes


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby The_Maille_Tailor » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:06 pm

I don't think I will be at Bootcamp unless Dave (Iron Dwarf) has my forge ready by then?

But I will be at TORM if thats any help?

The leather I used was from 'Whiskered bat' on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8sq-ft-NATURAL-VE ... 1e5ae8dbfd

Hope that helps?

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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby Colin Middleton » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:32 pm

I don't know if I'll be there yet. It depends on how poor I feel after Christmas!


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Re: Debra Lough Costumes review

Postby The_Maille_Tailor » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:49 pm

It's the feeling poor before Christmas you want to worry about! :wink:


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