Heraldic dresses

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Heraldic dresses

Post by latheaxe »

Could somebody in the know please tell me if the males colours should be on the left or right of a ladies combined heraldic dress.
I have seen it both ways and wondered which way is correct before the material is cut!

Lady Cecily
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Post by Lady Cecily »

Both Sir Geoffrey Luttrells wife and daughter in law have his arms on their right. early 14th century

Sir J Harsicks wife has his arms on her left. 1384

So apparently either - so is this to do with the seniority of each family? I also notice there is no hard and fast rule as to which side women are placed on monumental brasses.

Sorry not very helpfull - but I'd certainly like to hear more information on this.

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Post by nutmeg_bec »

I'd say go with the usual heraldic depiction: That is the husband's on the viewer's left, and the wife's on the viewer's right. This is repeated on the back of the garment (ie: husband's again on the viewer's left, wife on the right), rather than in mirror. If you're depicting an existing coat of arms, the images can be lifted direct from the Rolls of arms: these are particularly helpful when dealing with complex coats involving quartering and composite shields.
The use of both sides for either family could be explained a number of ways... a mistake on the artist's part, or it may just be that over time the husband's arms became established on the dexter, and wife's on the sinister (I think I got them the right way round there). I quite like the seniority idea though - especially if it's a descent that the family is particularly proud of?
Having been lazy over finishing my heraldic gown (as you can see from my avatar - no devices yet), I too will be interested in future replies! :roll:

ralph neville
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Post by ralph neville »

from the research that i have found the male heraldry is normally on the wearers right side and the female line on the wearers left. this is because if the wearer was holding a shield the male line would be the side showeing from the front and the female would be partially obscured to the rear there are times when this does not apply for example if the female line is of a more senior claim to a title or of the blood royal as is my quatered arms in the 14thc where i have seniority over my first wife lady maude stafford but my arms (neville) are eclipsed by my second wife lady joan beaufort so my arms would be placed as you are looking at them. beaufort top left ,neville top right, neville bottom left, stafford bottom right . i hope this is of some help :?

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Post by Grymm »

Heraldry isn't 'standardised ' until after the end of the 15thC so if it looks better one way more than another they seem to have just done it. The same with differencing, todays rules say first son has a white lable of 3 but I've found families using mullets, a wound (If your charge is an animal) reversal of colours a change of colours and a multitude of other devices to difference between siblings/family members. Things change slowly after The College of Arms is established in 1480s but for WOTR and earlier the world is the bivalve mollousc of your choice.
Futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis.

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