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Help with clothing

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:03 pm
by Kirsty
Hi,

I was wondering if anyone can recommend websites to buy clothes off cause my boyfrind and another few are very unwilling to sew anything. Basically just tunics or trews later medieval preferably, norman or knights hospitaller period.

Thanks a bunch for any help in advance :)

Re: Help with clothing

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:30 pm
by sally
Kirsty wrote:Hi,

I was wondering if anyone can recommend websites to buy clothes off cause my boyfrind and another few are very unwilling to sew anything. Basically just tunics or trews later medieval preferably, norman or knights hospitaller period.

Thanks a bunch for any help in advance :)
Probably best to pick an actual date as in some centuries even 25 years will make a difference as to what goes. Also, what level of accuracy are they after, all machine sewn, no visible machine stitching, or all handsewn?

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:40 am
by Nigel
Drop Debs a line she is slowly getting back to work

We keepa certain amount of Norman kit in stock to feed the group newbies with

Hospitaller is a bit more specialised

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:11 pm
by Kirsty
cool, thanks guys, as to being date specific, i know we need the robes for earlier stuff and we're doing up to later 13th for templar bashing.

until i weasel out a specific year from someone thats the best i can do.

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:25 pm
by BrendanGrif
I will be down in Cork at the weekend and can go over some of the Hospitaller kit stuff - are you planning on getting kit together as a:
-Knight
-Sergeant
-Chaplain
-Sister (yes they did have the equivalent of a nunery, one at least -Devon/Cornwall springs to mind but not sure)
-Corrody holder (There were 2 females with this status in Kilmainham in the early 1300s)
-Mercenary on hire to the order (Whether it be as archer or other...)
-Servant
-...

You really need to figure out a) Target year b) Budget available (Direct linkage to quality of product i.e. machine/hand stitched) c) TIme available to make stuff and likelihood of doing it

Brendan

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:28 pm
by valen
Reposting the Hospitaller Kit Guide from livinghistory.ie...

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dhkcrb ... ss5n&hl=en

John

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:39 pm
by zauberdachs
valen wrote:Reposting the Hospitaller Kit Guide from livinghistory.ie...

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dhkcrb ... ss5n&hl=en

John
That's a really good idea and a nice guide.

To be a pedant though I don't believe there is any evidence for early hose (i.e. pre fastening to doublet) being fastened on the side or indeed to a belt.

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:35 pm
by Nigel
should be fatened to the braes

well spotted that man

Kirsty got your pm did you get mine ?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:33 pm
by Biro
This isn't a bad guide at all - although there are a few other things I would question.

I'm not sure Aketons were around in 1050

I'd also be wary of the 1305 mentions of no more mail gauntlets and it also makes it sound like hardened leather armour is now the prominent type - which as far as I''m aware it was a rarity. IMO for this year, you can't go wrong with head to foot mail with no other supplemental armour than padded cuisses and poleyn.

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:36 pm
by valen
Biro wrote:I'm not sure Aketons were around in 1050
They certainly were for 1066. Reckon that there was some massive revolution in the meantime ?
I'd also be wary of the 1305 mentions of no more mail gauntlets and it also makes it sound like hardened leather armour is now the prominent type - which as far as I''m aware it was a rarity. IMO for this year, you can't go wrong with head to foot mail with no other supplemental armour than padded cuisses and poleyn.
You are dead right about mail gauntlets in early 1300s, changed. I'll just say 'By Visby in 1360, most knights had substantial splint gauntlets'. Also 'leather' is misleading. Most of what I've seen was steel/leather mixed armour, not leather on its own (though some of the osprey books do cite sources for large proportions crafted hardened leather armour around 1310-1340).

I've also changed the 1250 hose to be fastened to braes...I didn't know that, and will have to change mine :)

John

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:40 pm
by zauberdachs
valen wrote:
I've also changed the 1250 hose to be fastened to braes...I didn't know that, and will have to change mine :)

John
awesome, my inner pedant is sleeping like a baby ;)

Don't forget to remove side fastening as it's a terrible, terrible re-enactorism :)

I've seen evidence for the late 15th/early 16th century for belt fastening hose but am not sure there's anything earlier than that. Though post 1370 I have little idea.

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:15 am
by Kirsty
......thats nice...

now can someone draw me a picture cause i've no idea whats going on... :?

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:51 am
by zauberdachs
Kirsty wrote:......thats nice...

now can someone draw me a picture cause i've no idea whats going on... :?
nitpicking is what's going on :)

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:56 am
by nathan
valen wrote:
Biro wrote:I'm not sure Aketons were around in 1050
They certainly were for 1066. Reckon that there was some massive revolution in the meantime ?

They certainly were in 1188 (assizes of henry II). Before then I am unaware of evidence clearly indicating the use of padding that isn't Roman/Byzantine.

N.

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:31 am
by Biro
nathan wrote:
They certainly were in 1188 (assizes of henry II). Before then I am unaware of evidence clearly indicating the use of padding that isn't Roman/Byzantine.

N.
That was my view too. I've been looking for earlier sources but havn't found any .. :-/ If anyone can help with this, I'd be a happy man :)

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:37 am
by Zachos
zauberdachs wrote:
awesome, my inner pedant is sleeping like a baby ;)
No-one here has an inner pedant. Everyone has very vocal and outward pedants that know how to make themselves heard.


Just being pedantic.

Zac

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:42 am
by Nigel
Ask Debs she has hundred of obscure pictorial references to all things padding

I know one of the obscure German paslaters has an illustration of what must be padding worn in a battle

Plus ask Hobbit stomper abotu weird references in sagas

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:20 pm
by Colin Middleton
valen wrote: I've also changed the 1250 hose to be fastened to braes...I didn't know that, and will have to change mine :)

John
Litterally, they fastened to the breach girdle, which is the thing that keeps your brais/breeches up. I've started using at thick band of fabric threaded through a casing in the breeches for that, but I've not put it into use yet to say how comfy it actually is. The cord I used before was not pleasent.

I thought that I read in The Medieval Tailor's Assistant that there was evidence for side fasteneing hoes, though it could just be a twisting of the leg. It does seem a little odd to have the seam on the inside, rather than the back.

The Bayeux Tapestry shows a number of things that are assumed to be gambesons/aketons. AFAIK, we don't know what was worn under mail before 1250 or so. There is a picture in the BT of a knight being stripped of his mail and being naked underneath, but I can't beleive that was actually how it was worn!