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points ????

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:25 pm
by john mackay
Can anyone tell us were we can buy points from? we cant seem to get our hands on any. any kinds are welcome brass, leather,fabric

cheers

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:27 pm
by sally
Try Annie the Pedlar, I beleive she makes points but perhaps its just the aiglets :?

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:43 pm
by GinaB
I make silk ones (fingerloop braids) to order.

Re: points ????

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:21 pm
by ValTarrant
john mackay wrote:Can anyone tell us were we can buy points from? we cant seem to get our hands on any. any kinds are welcome brass, leather,fabric

cheers


Is this what you are looking for?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Medieval-Lucette- ... dZViewItem

Val

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:16 pm
by guthrie
Willo makes some as well, or used to.
If you can get to the ToRM or Living history faire, someone is bound to be selling them.
In fact, given the most common kind are just sheet brass/ bronze roled over and drilled, I might try and make some myself.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:10 pm
by janes-wardrobe
and Mark Vickers sells just the brass aiglets if you want to make your own.

You could always buy Gina's book - it's very comprehensive.

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:58 pm
by john mackay
cheers guys. thanks for the help

john

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:27 pm
by gregory23b
John Waller - posts here makes excellent points, ditto Willo.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:23 pm
by wibble puppy
i make them :D - fingerloop braids, or tubular tablet weaving if you want to be able to tow cars with them.

Which type you go for, leather or silk, might depend on your status and the exact period you are doing.

Good fun to learn how to fingerbraid yourself - lots of guys I know have learned, it ain't hard. This is a nice site: http://www.stringpage.com/braid/fl/fingerloop.html . Stick to the first of the techniques described, and stick to one colour. You can use either worsted wool, silk, or linen (the only excavated examples I'm aware of are of silk). If you want to be anal you should use two-ply filment silk yarn (not spun silk).

Then you'll need to rivet brass aiglets on to them - use iron rivets not brass, and don't sew the aiglets on.

Happy braiding :D

wibble xx

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:25 pm
by wibble puppy
another nice site to learn from, with the best illustrations I've seen: http://www.bumply.com/Medieval/braiding03.html Except: use five loops not seven.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:11 pm
by gregory23b
You can crimp aiglets to the braid or the leather.

Point leather (goat) was imported into England from Spain in the 15thc, OoI

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:19 pm
by wibble puppy
gregory23b wrote:You can crimp aiglets to the braid or the leather.


Nah mate - Smedley he say: "The chapes... were most commonly attached to the laces with iron rivets... An innovation post 1500 was to crimp-in the chape's seam along its length to grip the lace instead of riveting, though rivets continued for many years" (Late Medieval 'Points' - A Brief Summary of Information" 1997) :)

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:21 pm
by Colin Middleton
The MoL book on Dress Accessories proposes that the back of the aiglets was crimed in to help grip the point.

Are brass rivit definitely wrong? I know that iron was used with brass aiglets, but I'm not certain if that is the ONLY thing used.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:26 pm
by wibble puppy
Colin Middleton wrote:Are brass rivit definitely wrong? I know that iron was used with brass aiglets, but I'm not certain if that is the ONLY thing used.


I think it's the only thing there is evidence for :?

Ooh forgot plaiting as a way of making laces :o

Colin Middleton wrote:The MoL book on Dress Accessories proposes that the back of the aiglets was crimed in to help grip the point


Yeah, fair point, and there are chapes in that catalogue which don't have rivet holes. But I'm slightly wary of extrapolating from pre-1450 sources (though in many cases there isn't an option :evil: ) so I prefer to stick with the riveted type meself. :) Research changes though and I'd be v interested in any evidence for crimped aiglets during the WotR period - or in any evidence I haven't seen :D

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:10 pm
by gregory23b
I have it on reasonable authority from someone at a museum, I will check for specific dates, but they said it was in their medieval collection.

Strictly speaking 1450s is still WOTR period, the start of...nyer nyer.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:15 pm
by wibble puppy
yup, just about :D

cool re museum stuff, wd be interested in all info!! :D (specially if the chape still had a weeny bit of lace stuck in it.... :wink: 8) )

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:28 pm
by Wayland2002
John Waller makes nice ones with a little brass pin to hold it in place.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:43 am
by Vicky
gregory23b wrote:I have it on reasonable authority from someone at a museum, I will check for specific dates, but they said it was in their medieval collection.


Oh, interesting. Do share when you find out! :wink:

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:33 am
by gregory23b
I will let you know, but can't reveal my sources. Only fair really.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:08 pm
by wibble puppy
Fine by me :)

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:33 pm
by John Waller
Aiglets required? Drop me a pm.

Cheers

John

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:37 pm
by Uncle Bulgaria
Dear John

I am a supplier of historical clothing points.

I stock a variety of sorts depending on yours requirements.

A set of hand dyed linen points (6 per set) with brass aiglets £15.00
various colours

Leather points 12 per set riveted brass aiglets £22

Silk points set of 6 revitted points £20

Waxed Linen Arming points set of 12 rivetted brass aiglets £50

can do part coloured aswell

If any help, please PM me

Unc Bulgaria

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:58 pm
by Colin Middleton
wibble puppy wrote:
Colin Middleton wrote:Are brass rivit definitely wrong? I know that iron was used with brass aiglets, but I'm not certain if that is the ONLY thing used.


I think it's the only thing there is evidence for :?

Ooh forgot plaiting as a way of making laces :o

Colin Middleton wrote:The MoL book on Dress Accessories proposes that the back of the aiglets was crimed in to help grip the point


Yeah, fair point, and there are chapes in that catalogue which don't have rivet holes. But I'm slightly wary of extrapolating from pre-1450 sources (though in many cases there isn't an option :evil: ) so I prefer to stick with the riveted type meself. :) Research changes though and I'd be v interested in any evidence for crimped aiglets during the WotR period - or in any evidence I haven't seen :D


Sorry for the delay in replying.

Iron pins, yes, I think it was 3 out of the 10 show evidence of iron, the rest show no evidence. I was just being a bit 'devil's advocate', sorry. There appears to only be evidence for silk, not linnen or woolen points on a similar basis, if I remember correctly.

As for the crimping, I wouldn't like to trust it to keep the lace in, but it does make it easier to get the aigelt back through the hole when you undo them. For that reason, I would expect crimping even on pinned ones to be the norm.

Colin