A question for the horsey types.

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Merlon.
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A question for the horsey types.

Post by Merlon. »

I have been reading through the Acts of the Privy Council 1597 regarding the deployment of troops and stores to Ireland. There I found the following quote
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A peck of oats I believe is 14 Lbs. Question is, is that a good, indifferent or poor ration of oats to give a horse each day?
Just interested as it probably the only reference to horse rations I have ever come across.

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Grania
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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by Grania »

Don't know too much about these things myself, but my Dad says it probably depends upon what else they were given - that sounds like a large quantity of oats, but of course those horses were doing serious work. Experience of a horse NOT doing much work being given too many oats is that it sends them as high as a kite :D (quote!) Are there any other details, or does it just mention the oats? Really interesting stuff...can I ask where you found it?
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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by SteveC »

A peck is (according to Wikipedia) 2 gallons.
One conversion factor I've found suggests that a peck of oats would be nearer 9 pounds than 14. (2 gallons of water would be 20 lb)

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Merlon.
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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by Merlon. »

There are four pecks to the bushel,
The bushel is a special measure which can be both a volume and a weight according to circumstance. Noy only that, the bushel varies depending on what is being measured (and whether you are talking about heaped or stricken bushels). Per Elizabethan standards a bushel of oats is 56 Lb, therefore a peck is 14Lb.
As stated this is an extract from the Acts of the Privy Council, I bought myself six volumes as a Xmas present

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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by STEENIE »

The imperial system is based on 1 gallon of water weighing 1 peck (stone). Which means an imperial pint = 20 oz whereas the American system works on 1 pint = 1 pound hence their pint being 16 oz and their gallon being smaller.

I have sat and thought about this peck of oats a day. Let us assume the horse is in a lot of work and this peck is the only hard feed. Assuming the horse is not the larger types of now (Cruso 1632 talks about cavalry horses of 15:1 hhs). If you put this in 2 feeds, it isn't as large as you would think on first glance.

Tomorrow, when I feed our horses, I will look to see what 4 pints (basing it on 2 feeds of 8 pints) looks like in hard feed.

Will report back :)
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Merlon.
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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by Merlon. »

Thank you Steenie.
At the risk of teaching granma to suck eggs, bear in mind that the Imperial measures most people grew up with, and relate to, were only finalised in the Weights and Measures Act of 1824.
Prior to then measurements can vary significantly. I can comfirm that the peck in question would be 14Lb

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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by STEENIE »

Merlon. wrote:Thank you Steenie.
At the risk of teaching granma to suck eggs, bear in mind that the Imperial measures most people grew up with, and relate to, were only finalised in the Weights and Measures Act of 1824.
Prior to then measurements can vary significantly. I can comfirm that the peck in question would be 14Lb
I am working on your system to try and get to an actual feed size. The current imperial system calls for the measure to be twice this much at 28 lbs

Therefore working on their being 14lbs to the peck we end up with one Peck = 14 lbs = 1 Stone = 1 gallon of liquid weight (water) = 8 pints ergo it would be 2 feeds of 4 pints a feed.

The trouble is that a bushel is a quantity weight which means, as Oats are so variable in weight compared to volume this is another factor. The British Army say that there should be 40 lbs of oats to an Imperial Bushel. If we accept that the weight of an imperial bushel dry is 8 imperial gallons, which is a water weight of 112 Ibs, yet you can only get 40 lbs of oats into a bushel. If your peck weighs 14 lbs this would mean the bushel to match it would be 14X4 = 56 lbs. Therefore if we take the same ratio of oats to a bushel as laid out by the British Cavalry, you only get 20 lbs of oats dry in your bushel = 4 lbs a peck or 2 lbs a feed if you feed 2 feeds a day.

Of the feeding of oats the British Army manual of Animal Management 1933 says of feeding oats:
'With horses in strong work the amount which they may be given is practically as much as the animal cares to consume and provided that a suitable quantity of other forage is included in the ration, this will usually vary from 12 to 16 lbs a day.'

This means, if you feed the above in 2 feeds, the above quantities are 4 times the amount of the feed you have suggested if the Tudor horse is regarded to be in hard work.

I am useless at maths so please run over them and see what you think.
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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by Friesian »

STEENIE wrote:
Merlon. wrote:Thank you Steenie.
At the risk of teaching granma to suck eggs, bear in mind that the Imperial measures most people grew up with, and relate to, were only finalised in the Weights and Measures Act of 1824.
Prior to then measurements can vary significantly. I can comfirm that the peck in question would be 14Lb
I am working on your system to try and get to an actual feed size. The current imperial system calls for the measure to be twice this much at 28 lbs

Therefore working on their being 14lbs to the peck we end up with one Peck = 14 lbs = 1 Stone = 1 gallon of liquid weight (water) = 8 pints ergo it would be 2 feeds of 4 pints a feed.

The trouble is that a bushel is a quantity weight which means, as Oats are so variable in weight compared to volume this is another factor. The British Army say that there should be 40 lbs of oats to an Imperial Bushel. If we accept that the weight of an imperial bushel dry is 8 imperial gallons, which is a water weight of 112 Ibs, yet you can only get 40 lbs of oats into a bushel. If your peck weighs 14 lbs this would mean the bushel to match it would be 14X4 = 56 lbs. Therefore if we take the same ratio of oats to a bushel as laid out by the British Cavalry, you only get 20 lbs of oats dry in your bushel = 4 lbs a peck or 2 lbs a feed if you feed 2 feeds a day.

Of the feeding of oats the British Army manual of Animal Management 1933 says of feeding oats:
'With horses in strong work the amount which they may be given is practically as much as the animal cares to consume and provided that a suitable quantity of other forage is included in the ration, this will usually vary from 12 to 16 lbs a day.'

This means, if you feed the above in 2 feeds, the above quantities are 4 times the amount of the feed you have suggested if the Tudor horse is regarded to be in hard work.

I am useless at maths so please run over them and see what you think.
Also,besides the size of horse & what work it is doing daily it would depend on what time of year it is whether that is a 'good' ration. I would think anyone giving 14lbs of oats to a horse after a night on the spring grass might find that Dobbin has turned into Red Rum on blue smarties overnight !.....Assuming they're not talking about bran (to mash) when they use the term oats (?)

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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by STEENIE »

Friesian said:


'Also,besides the size of horse & what work it is doing daily it would depend on what time of year it is whether that is a 'good' ration. I would think anyone giving 14lbs of oats to a horse after a night on the spring grass might find that Dobbin has turned into Red Rum on blue smarties overnight !.....Assuming they're not talking about bran (to mash) when they use the term oats (?)
Friesian Posts: 123Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:16 pm'


I am talking oats, pure and simple. I assume the guys in the Tudor period were doing the same, as an oat is an oat.
We feast upon those that seek to subdue us. (Adams Family motto but suits my family exactly)

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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by Friesian »

STEENIE wrote:Friesian said:


'Also,besides the size of horse & what work it is doing daily it would depend on what time of year it is whether that is a 'good' ration. I would think anyone giving 14lbs of oats to a horse after a night on the spring grass might find that Dobbin has turned into Red Rum on blue smarties overnight !.....Assuming they're not talking about bran (to mash) when they use the term oats (?)
Friesian Posts: 123Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:16 pm'


I am talking oats, pure and simple. I assume the guys in the Tudor period were doing the same, as an oat is an oat.
Your probably right as oat bran wasnt availible commercialy at that time ( first commercially availlible1800s ?) ... The point I was trying to make is that we are all assuming that 'oats' was being used for its literall meaning rather than feed as a whole, when we all know the problems feeding oats in an inapropriate situation can cause. So I'm suggesting in this case perhaps an oat isnt an oat.

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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by STEENIE »

Friesian,

In heavy work, oats are still fed.

The trouble is in the UK we have so many companies supplying mixes, from simple non-heating mixes and cubes though to loyalty mixes, veteran mixes, old timers, and conditioners. Then we have additives, like blue chip, lo cal, outshine, etc. In the old days such mixes were something the alchemist of the horse yard used to mix up.
All straights!.

I ride a lot on the continent in military competition, and OATS are fed in huge quantities. Just oats. Nothing else. Ofcourse, if you don't work the horse then you have a monster. Even when worked you still have a monster lol. Nonethess,that is how it is. You get what you get, a horse on speed which is what you want in competition. This is also true in America, where in a competition 18 months ago, I was shown the respect oats are due when put through a horse. PAIN lol.
We feast upon those that seek to subdue us. (Adams Family motto but suits my family exactly)

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STEENIE
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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by STEENIE »

Friesian,

In heavy work, oats are still fed.

The trouble is in the UK we have so many companies supplying mixes, from simple non-heating mixes and cubes though to loyalty mixes, veteran mixes, old timers, and conditioners. Then we have additives, like blue chip, lo cal, outshine, etc. In the old days such mixes were something the alchemist of the horse yard used to mix up.
All straights!.

I ride a lot on the continent in military competition, and OATS are fed in huge quantities. Just oats. Nothing else. Ofcourse, if you don't work the horse then you have a monster. Even when worked you still have a monster lol. Nonethess,that is how it is. You get what you get, a horse on speed which is what you want in competition. This is also true in America, where in a competition 18 months ago, I was shown the respect oats are due when put through a horse. PAIN lol.
We feast upon those that seek to subdue us. (Adams Family motto but suits my family exactly)

Friesian
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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by Friesian »

STEENIE wrote:Friesian,

In heavy work, oats are still fed.

The trouble is in the UK we have so many companies supplying mixes, from simple non-heating mixes and cubes though to loyalty mixes, veteran mixes, old timers, and conditioners. Then we have additives, like blue chip, lo cal, outshine, etc. In the old days such mixes were something the alchemist of the horse yard used to mix up.
All straights!.

I ride a lot on the continent in military competition, and OATS are fed in huge quantities. Just oats. Nothing else. Ofcourse, if you don't work the horse then you have a monster. Even when worked you still have a monster lol. Nonethess,that is how it is. You get what you get, a horse on speed which is what you want in competition. This is also true in America, where in a competition 18 months ago, I was shown the respect oats are due when put through a horse. PAIN lol.
:D
Used to get well miffed myself when a certain supplier used to feed her horses oats the night before a joust & then more for breakfast - they were well capable of doing their job without being hyper & IMO just not needed for half an hours hard work . Haven't ever needed to feed ours oats as they're plenty 'up for it' as it is & still quite young......Might be an interesting experiment though, specially if the mare's in season at the time ! :D

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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by STEENIE »

Friesian wrote:
STEENIE wrote:Friesian,


18 months ago, I took a team to the United States National Cavalry Competition. I had the same scenario with one of the team corning up my horse that didn't need it. Ended up being rolled on leaving me with losing the tip of one side of my hip, 2 broken ribs in my back a torn right lung a cracked cheek and a cracked molar tooth that had to be taken out.
:D
Used to get well miffed myself when a certain supplier used to feed her horses oats the night before a joust & then more for breakfast - they were well capable of doing their job without being hyper & IMO just not needed for half an hours hard work . Haven't ever needed to feed ours oats as they're plenty 'up for it' as it is & still quite young......Might be an interesting experiment though, specially if the mare's in season at the time ! :D
We feast upon those that seek to subdue us. (Adams Family motto but suits my family exactly)

Friesian
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Re: A question for the horsey types.

Post by Friesian »

STEENIE wrote:
Friesian wrote:
STEENIE wrote:Friesian,


18 months ago, I took a team to the United States National Cavalry Competition. I had the same scenario with one of the team corning up my horse that didn't need it. Ended up being rolled on leaving me with losing the tip of one side of my hip, 2 broken ribs in my back a torn right lung a cracked cheek and a cracked molar tooth that had to be taken out.
:D
Used to get well miffed myself when a certain supplier used to feed her horses oats the night before a joust & then more for breakfast - they were well capable of doing their job without being hyper & IMO just not needed for half an hours hard work . Haven't ever needed to feed ours oats as they're plenty 'up for it' as it is & still quite young......Might be an interesting experiment though, specially if the mare's in season at the time ! :D

Ouch...Went down with my horse & got rolled on the other month but not as serious as that, just the obligitory cracked ribs & internal bruising......My worst fear is being wishboned

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