Just how hot would Mercia have had to be to grow coconuts?

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:59 pm

It was warmer and damper in the 5th Century, you know.

m300572 · Post by **m300572** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:07 pm

Can you elaborate a bit on the reason for the question - as far as I can recall there are no archaeobotanical records of coconuts from Mercia (or indeed any other early medieval contexts).

Medicus Matt · Post by **Medicus Matt** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:12 pm

Steven wrote:It was warmer and damper in the 5th Century, you know.

And as a result, the swallows were larger (European that is, not African).

madjon · Post by **madjon** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:47 pm

it could have been carried by two swallows?

but a climate for growing coconuts would have to be fairly warm above 20C as an average have a reasonable rain fall and of course coconut trees.
date palms on the other hand can grow in torquay, though if you look at climatic change over time you have to take into account the much colder climatic spells of the pre 1700s. which may veru well preclude the presence of any type of tropical or semi tropical nut producing tree.

Medicus Matt · Post by **Medicus Matt** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:55 pm

Oooh, we're being serious? In that case, according to Michael Jones in 'The End of Roman Britain' :-

About AD 400, there was a shift to wetter, colder weather in Britain, a deterioration that intensified after AD 450. By the late Roman period, there may have been as much as a 10% increase in rainfall. Together with deforestation and expanded agriculture and grazing, heavier rains would have aggravated soil erosion and flooding. Soil would be leached of its nutrients and fertility; and heaths and bogs would have claimed arable soil and lessened productivity.

Annual average temperature also dropped during this time, perhaps as much as 2.5 degrees F (1.5° C). This would have lowered the elevation at which grains could grow by 650 feet and shortened the growing season by almost one whole month.

So, no coconuts for the Romano-Brits.

Moving on to the later 5th and 6th century when Mercia becomes an established A-S territory, temperatures hit a big low in about 560 and then start to climb steadily until you get back to the same sort of temps that you had around 200AD.

Warm enough for grapes, not hot enough for coconuts. Not even at the peak of the Medieval Warm Period in the late 11th/12th Century.

Now, go and change your armour, son of a silly person.

MedicKitten · Post by **MedicKitten** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:57 pm

What if the swallows had greenhouses?

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:24 pm

Medicus Matt wrote:So, no coconuts for the Romano-Brits.

Ahhh...that explains why the Saxons weren't big on cavalry!

Maybe they just banged two halves of coconuts together when they had to travel long distances at short notice...

guthrie · Post by **guthrie** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:27 pm

"Ahhh, but grapes were grown in England in the medieval warm period, thus disproving global warming!! Ah hA! got you there!"
Pedantic voice- "There are more vineyards in England today than there were then." *Slap*

craig1459 · Post by **craig1459** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:36 am

guthrie wrote:"Ahhh, but grapes were grown in England in the medieval warm period, thus disproving global warming!! Ah hA! got you there!"
Pedantic voice- "There are more vineyards in England today than there were then." *Slap*

I've had Essex Chardonnay - it tasted like it sounds. No wonder the Romans left

Medicus Matt · Post by **Medicus Matt** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:07 am

craig1459 wrote:
I've had Essex Chardonnay - .

So have I, nasty blonde girl, hangs around the museum in Chelmsford?

WorkMonkey · Post by **WorkMonkey** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:52 pm

There's a joke in here somewhere about Stevens hairy nuts. Now where is it...

Marcus Woodhouse · Post by **Marcus Woodhouse** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:21 pm

I think we can deduce from this before we all decend into a pit of depravity that mercia would have to be quite hot for coconuts to grow there.

Simon Atford · Post by **Simon Atford** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:26 pm

Why do they have actually grow the coconuts in Mercia?

Given the trading networks avalible in the post Roman period could they not import them?

Coconuts are easy to transport, either by ship or especially trained swallow teams with strands of creaper

and unlike real horses there's no danger of them dying on you during the voyage

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:19 pm

Granted, but the change of climate can lead to nut-rot.

Simon Atford · Post by **Simon Atford** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:42 pm

Except coconuts arn't rearly nuts (learnt this on QI)

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:51 pm

Oh, shytte!
I'll go back to me dirt, then?

(sloshy endosperm,,,heh heh hehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...clip clop, clip clop)

m300572 · Post by **m300572** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:19 pm

Except coconuts arn't rearly nuts

What are they then?? Is this in the same vein as bananas not being fruit but actually a type of grass?

Medicus Matt · Post by **Medicus Matt** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:27 pm

Coconuts are seeds.

Lady Phoenix · Post by **Lady Phoenix** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:51 pm

And Bananas are berries (learned that on QI, good program, that!)

Nix

m300572 · Post by **m300572** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:20 pm

Coconuts are seeds.

So what are nuts then - I always thought they were the seeds of various nut plants (hazelnuts etc)? - although monkey nuts aren't!

Medicus Matt · Post by **Medicus Matt** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:01 pm

m300572 wrote:
Coconuts are seeds.
So what are nuts then - I always thought they were the seeds of various nut plants (hazelnuts etc)? - although monkey nuts aren't!

Errrmm...nuts are classified as the fruit of a tree..I think.

moosiemoosiegander · Post by **moosiemoosiegander** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:46 pm

Hmm...just to complicate things, me dictionary says that a nut is a hard shelled seed....

Peanuts are legumes though and coconuts are seeds...just to confooze things

craig1973 · Post by **craig1973** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:14 pm

Yes - the fruit is the whole outer husk that doesn't get as far as Tesco's

LivingHistory.co.uk

Just how hot would Mercia have had to be to grow coconuts?

Just how hot would Mercia have had to be to grow coconuts?

Re: Just how hot would Mercia have had to be to grow coconut