"Burgundian" Tent

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Mordengaard
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"Burgundian" Tent

Postby Mordengaard » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:22 am

Okay, now I know I saw someone post what the proper name for a "Burgundian" two pole guyed tent is (y'know, the ones that look like conjoined pavillions), but I'll be mogadored if I can find the post using the search system. Little help?


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Laffin Jon Terris
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Re: "Burgundian" Tent

Postby Laffin Jon Terris » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:13 am

"Long pavilion"? "two poled pavilion"? "double poled pavilion"? "stretched pavilion"?

Unfortunately this is another term like chainmail, turnshoe and pourpoint that is stuck in the general concious and will take great effort to change.

I still kick myself occasionally (partly just for fun :wink: ) for using dodgy terms.

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medievalpirate
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Re: "Burgundian" Tent

Postby medievalpirate » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:36 pm

Just had a look in friends&gossip under
"which tent-round or burgundian".
and it's sopposedly a 'HALE'.

the only reason we call things like 'hales'
burgundians is everyone knows what
we're talking about rather than having
to spend three hours describing something
we all know by another name...


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John Waller
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Re: "Burgundian" Tent

Postby John Waller » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:50 pm

The translated list from Finot (1895) that I have only refers to tents and pavilions

The houses of the Duke for which is needed 7 carts
3 pavilions
A tent for the Duke
400 pavilions for the companies of the ordonannce and the gentlemen of the household of the Duke

350 new sheds/stables
26 tents with two poles

etc etc

This from a list of materiel for a campaign of Charles the Bold, Duke of Burgundy, in 1475.

See the Royal Armouries Yearbook vol 6 2001.


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gregory23b
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Re: "Burgundian" Tent

Postby gregory23b » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:24 pm

(a1460) Vegetius(2) (Pmb-C 243) 776: Campymeters [L Metatores] mesured out the grounde, To picche pavilons, tentys and teeldys.

Campymeter - sets out plan of military camp. Distinction between pavillion and tent, plus teeldys or telds,

(a) A temporary dwelling, tent; also, a permanent dwelling, castle, fort, hut, etc.; also, God's dwelling place; godes ~; ~ stede, a dwelling place, home; under ~, under (someone's) roof, within the house; also, ?privately
[quot. c1450(a1425)]; hiden under teldes, to shelter (sheep); (b) a canopy or an awning over a boat; also, material or a piece of material for such an awning; (c) ?a portable cage for the transport of hawks; ?the fabric covering under which hawks are carried; (d) ?a stiff cloth used in a tent or canopy, ?haircloth; (e) in place name [see Smith PNElem.2.177].


(1400-2) Acc.R.Dur.in Sur.Soc.103 603: Et pro canvays pro le Tent.

Hales are temporary structures, eg awnings, open pavillions, fake buildings, not specifically military, ie you can have hales, tents and pavillions, all are temporary structures, but not necessarily the same thing, see entry for tents after hale.

a1425(?c1350) Ywain (Glb E.9) 18: Arthure..made a feste..in Wales, And efter mete, þare in þe hales, Ful grete and gay was þe assemble Of lordes and ladies.
a1425(?c1375) NHom.(3) Leg.(Hrl 4196) 125/94: Þar ware..Tregetoures in halles and hales, And als dissores with diuers tales.
c1425(c1400) Ld.Troy (LdMisc 595) 9117: He droff hem home ri3t to here hales And sclow hem ther ri3t In her sales.
(1440) PParv.(Hrl 221) 222: Hale, or tente: Papilio, scena.
a1450(a1338) Mannyng Chron.Pt.1 (Lamb 131) 9280: In halles & hales bordes leyd.
a1450 Castle Persev.(Folg V.a.354) 91/460: Mundus..I trotte & tremle in my trew trone; as a hawke, I hoppe in my hale [rime: sale, tale, dale].
c1450(?a1400) Wars Alex.(Ashm 44) 4148: A breme a blast..all þaire tents..to-terid & turned doun þe hallis; Þar pauylyons..It alto-schatird.
c1450 Capgr. St.Kath.(Arun 396) 1.734: Euery man had plente in hale and in halle.
c1475(c1399) Mum & S.(1) (Cmb Ll.4.14) 3.218: He wondrid..Þat þe hie houusinge herborowe ne myghte Halfdell þe houshould but hales hem helped. a1500(?a1400) Morte Arth.(2) (Hrl 2252) 1078: So churlysshe of maners in feld ne hale [rime: tale, bale, dale] Ne know I none of frende ne fo. ?a1500(a1471) Brut-1461(2) (Lyell 34) 9: The kyng leet make a long and large hous of tymber in the paleis at Westmynstre, that was callid an Hale, couered with tilez, and open on bothe sidez and atte endis.

see this entry for tent

(a) A portable tent used as a dwelling place by nomadic people; also, fig. an abode, a dwelling place;
(b) a tent used for temporary shelter in a military encampment, esp. during a siege; maken ~, to make camp;
(c) a pavilion erected for use on a festive occasion; a tent set up for housing a participant in a tournament;
(d) ~ ropes, ropes used to secure a tent or tentlike covering; maister of the kinges tentes, sergeaunt of tentes, a military officer in the king's household.


middle english dictionary

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