'battle' of worksop, 1460

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Colin Middleton
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Postby Colin Middleton » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:39 pm

Allan Harley ran a thread about this a while back. There may be some clues in there.

http://livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11172&highlight=worksop

Colin



mrs archer
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'battle' of worksop, 1460

Postby mrs archer » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:47 am

many thanks - read with interest! but still on the lookout for more 'hard' evidence of the encounter, eg from worksop area metal detectorists (don't worry, i'm not out to 'night-hawk' your sites!!)
mrs a


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Penske666
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Re: 'battle' of worksop, 1460

Postby Penske666 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:57 pm

Hi,

I represent the Priories Historical Society, based in Oldcotes, we are trying to look into this at present as it's 550 years ago next year! Any information greatly appreciated. Cheers



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Re: 'battle' of worksop, 1460

Postby mrs archer » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:43 am

hi,

sad to say, my research has largely drawn a blank. which in itself is quite interesting... the apparent dearth of evidence does tend to suggest that whatever happened at worksop, it wasn't as serious as the loss of york's vanguard (as stated in the most familiar translation of the annales rerum anglicarum attributed to william of worcester).

i'm planning to publish my theory on the encounter in a book on the battle of wakefield, which i hope will be available before the anniversary next year - so forgive me if i don't pre-empt the publication by saying more here. although to be perfectly honest, i've found little enough to say!

bestens,
mrs a


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behanner
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Re: 'battle' of worksop, 1460

Postby behanner » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:04 am

Look at all the local records of the region. You're not going to find a lot but you might find something.
An example of possibility, in some Kentish town records there are notes of the movements of Warrick in 1460 because letters are sent and recieved and payments for mayors to travel to see him are mentioned in the records.



mrs archer
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Re: 'battle' of worksop, 1460

Postby mrs archer » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:53 am

good point - altho' apparently there's nothing in worksop town or priory archive.


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behanner
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Re: 'battle' of worksop, 1460

Postby behanner » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:28 pm

That doesn't surprise me, the thing to do is draw a circle around it at a reasonable distance and look for any towns in that area that still have records.
Might start small like a circle is distance to Sheffield and look and see if you can find then repeat with slightly larger circles until you get further out to Lincoln, Nottingham and Derby. I know Nottingham has a decent number of records from the period because some of them have been collected. Further out then that likely isn't going to yield anything. Also remember just because a town is small now doesn't mean it wasn't considered large then. If there are any Victoria County Histories of the area done definitely check them to see what sort of records exist in the region.



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behanner
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Re: 'battle' of worksop, 1460

Postby behanner » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:13 pm

Few more things Worcester may have the wrong place, secondly can anyone confirm that a John Talbot and Christopher Talbot were burried in one of the churches, probably the priory church in 1460?



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behanner
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Re: 'battle' of worksop, 1460

Postby behanner » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:38 am

Does anyone have the actual quote of what William of Worcester wrote?



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Merlon.
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Re: 'battle' of worksop, 1460

Postby Merlon. » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:23 am

Acording to antiquarian books from the 1850s the quote reads
"Præeuntes sui ad numerum (manuscript damaged) per gentes Ducis Somerceciæ interimunter apud Worsop"
Not a lot really to go on, think you need someone like Brother Ranulf at this point



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Mick,M
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Re: 'battle' of worksop, 1460

Postby Mick,M » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:04 am

the thought that the battle was to the south west of the town come from the thoughts that york was coming up from nottingham ether by manfield or ollerton heading for blyth and so to the graet north road to york

this is the only thing that is out there and is taken from the history of worksop at
http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/white187 ... toryp2.htm

William of Worcester appears to be the only chronicler who notices a fight having taken place at Worksop during the civil wars of the Roses. He states that "the Duke of York, with the Earl of Salisbury, and many thousand armed men, going from London to York, in December, 1460, a portion of his men, the van, as is supposed, or perhaps the scouts, to the number of * * * [Here was an hiatus in the MS. from which Hearne printed.] were cut off by the people of the Duke of Somerset, at Worksop." Lingard notices this skirmish, and dates it December 2, and says, "though Somerset surprised the vanguard of the Yorkists at Worksop, they reached, before Christmas, the strong castle at Sandal."

that all folks good luck let me Know when you find anythig else



frankttalbot

Re: 'battle' of worksop, 1460

Postby frankttalbot » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:55 pm

behanner wrote:Few more things Worcester may have the wrong place, secondly can anyone confirm that a John Talbot and Christopher Talbot were burried in one of the churches, probably the priory church in 1460?


Sir John Talbot died in 1460 at the Battle of Northampton, his younger brother Christopher was killed by his manservant as they stormed Caus Castle in Shrop on 10th August 1443. He was only 24 years old but was Champion Tilter of England before his death. I believe he is buried inthe church at Treeton near Rotherham where he held the Manor.




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