Do we expect to much?

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jfdiow
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do we ask too much?

Post by jfdiow »

Lest anyone think that I advocate the habitual wearing of cardboard stays-in essence I am agreeing with Jenn (and Mary!)

I would expect a newbie to be as correctly and completely dressed as possible first time out-good guidance from the group beforehand helps in the expectation of what they should be wearing But.. in order to make this possible some compromises have to be made, and the compromises are usually on the expensive/difficult to borrow bits. Just as the guys don't usually expect a firsttimer to have a correct gun so the stays tend to be the sticking point with the distaff. Properly made, authentic stays can be as expensive as a tent, if you make your own they are not easy and are time consuming, not many of us have stays to lend and, unlike the rest of distaff kit, are not easily adjustable to fit-hence cardboard stays give the right look, are not identifiable to the public and encourage a first-timer to make the easy bits (petticoats, apron, handkerchief) and borrow the slightly more complicated bits of which many of us have spares-cap, jacket/gown, shift etc.

Also in my original point was the place of the significant others, the partners who come along with the children for a good weekend but have no interest in improving their own kit-How many unit commanders concentrate on the men and don't notice that the women are letting them down? How much should we compromise because they are the partners of members rather than members in their own right. Personally I don't think we should accept that. thankfully in MM and most of Lace Wars we don't have the problem, I would rather see partners dressed as 21stcentury people than badly turned out and not interested in the life of the camp or the history we portray.


As for getting it right first time, research changes- what was considered right four years ago may not be the same now and I owe it to myself to improve my kit -which is where the good example comes in-that the members of the group get new kit not because we need fourteen different outfits but because we recognise that new research, our own skills of construction and development of a persona matched to a time and event may require different kit- we are all works in progress and I don't think I'll ever be 'right'.... which is different to basic minimum kit so I digress, sorry.

best wishes,

Judith
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Peanutsmum
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Post by Peanutsmum »

My first event I borrowed clothes. That was at the end of the season and having decided I still wanted to join (Lace Wars) I made up basic kit over the winter. I wanted to get it right and was lucky that people were helpful. I have since aquired extras as you do (particularly after buying a shed - we believe that kit reproduces in there!) My son who is 7 also has kit that is as good as I can do. He wears plain modern shoes with his English gear because he's still growing and authentic ones are not economically viable but the rest is done properly (I hope). For highland kit he has the proper shoes as it's not an unreasonable cost. I don't hold with the view that what kids wear doesn't matter. I don't hand sew every seam but certainly I wouldn't turn up at an event with painfully naff clothes for him. He now thinks that having clothes like the men is pretty cool. You do need a certain minimum level of acceptable kit but I don't think it's right to exclude newcomers or make them feel unwelcome if they don't have access to everything immediately. Lend them something and advise them on how to make or otherwise acquire their own. :D

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Mark P.
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Post by Mark P. »

I pinched this link from one of wim-jaap's posts
Tod it looks like your problems with kit for newbies are over forever, spread the word.

MP

http://dalmatianalley.com/kilt.htm
Pulteney's Regiment
'We're from the Government, we're here to help'

http://www.13thfoot.co.uk or http://www.facebook.com/LaceWars

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Tod
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Post by Tod »

Wow and water proof too!
OK lads look for the brummie with a bit of string on his coat at the next event. He told me he likes it up close and personal.

Here to help my a##e

Steve of RaT
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Post by Steve of RaT »

Tod wrote: Here to help my a##e
I don't think your a##e needs any help, it manages quite well on it's own. :lol:
Steve
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Cat
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Post by Cat »

Hope you don't mind me contributing something about kids' shoes. Feel free to exclaim in horror if I have got this wrong. Having two stepkids whose feet are growing at a phenomenal rate, and who do at max 2 shows a year, I was told that simple leather brogues are acceptable-but only for kids-through most periods.

They are acceptable for most muddyevil events, I know this already. How much further forward could a child/adolescent in 'poorer' status kit get away with brogues? (Obviously yer well dressed youngster would have a small version of his Dad's shoes).

If our two did more shows, we'd probably go to the people who hire out kids' shoes for a season, and whose name has just escaped me-anybody?.
http://www.blood.co.uk. You get biscuits and everything.
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Jenn
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Post by Jenn »

Morgan hubbard does a scheme like this - can't remember the web address
My daughter has little latchets and a pair of bar shoes which seems to cover her for most periods made by Chris of
www.pilgrimshoes.co.uk. her kids shoes cost between £10-18 which is what you'd generally be paying for a normal pair and I've always managed to sell/pass them onto someone afterwards

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Peanutsmum
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Post by Peanutsmum »

I know Plantaganet shoes did a hire scheme but it doesn't cover our period.

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Foxe
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Post by Foxe »

I've read the first few and the last few posts of this thread and skimmed through the rest so apologies if this has been covered.

I was in a group once (now defunct alas) who had an excellent system of kitting out newbies. Complete kit could be borrowed for the first event, and people who showed an interest in coming back for more were pointed in the right direction and generally helped out (every re-enactor of more than a few years has spare kit which they could sell on cheap if only they wouldn't hold onto "that shirt" for nostalgic reasons). From their second event onwards newbies had to pay to borrow the kit. It wasn't very much, but it did encourage them to get their own at their own pace. The money raised from the rental went back into group funds for replacing and repairing the spare kit.

Of course, if anyone really wants to get into 18thC living history on a budget then they should go for a nautical group (not that you need any more reasons for going wet and fishy!). We can completely kit someone out as a seaman for less than £150 (excluding weapons and pretty things). Also, you don't strictly need shoes - but after your first gravel event you seriously think about buying them.

In Bonaventure we have a fairly good amount of spare kit belonging to members, but we've hit a snag in that every single male in the group with spare shoes is a size 9!

Note: Bonaventure is currently actively recruiting for sailors with size 9 feet.
...and further this Informant saith not.

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Andy R
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Post by Andy R »

Foxe wrote: Of course, if anyone really wants to get into 18thC living history on a budget then they should go for a nautical group (not that you need any more reasons for going wet and fishy!). We can completely kit someone out as a seaman for less than £150 (excluding weapons and pretty things).
B'ahh, you could do Milice for less, and not smell of fish.

All you need is tuque (wooly hat) shirt, breech-clout (1 foot x 1 yeard of material), mitasses (woolen leggings similar to gaiters but without buttons) and mocasins.

You get to shoot red coats, and run away if things look like they may potentially get dangerous.
Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die

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steve stanley
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Post by steve stanley »

And Canadian Militia get to fight on the British side for AWI...(& War of 1812..)
Steve
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Snowshoes and axe and gun
Send me up in Grand River
Steering by star and sun".
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Andy R
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Post by Andy R »

But they do look very, very different.
Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die

http://www.16ld.org

Dave
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Kit

Post by Dave »

Looking your pic Tod, you look affluent enough to kit out all your men! :shock: So here's what I would like........
Gentleman of decayed fortune

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Tod
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Post by Tod »

Dave, as it happens that's what I generally end up doing - for the new chaps. Wina MacPod loans kit to the girls.
We've just been given a bag of loan kit some of which went straight in the bin, some has been modified by the RaT girls, so we now can kit out several men. Unfortunaly we don't have any spare female kit other then Wina MacPod's (Ed).
We are actively recruiting and are looking for people to join the Jacobite army in what ever guise:
Highland
Lowland
English
Redcoat Deserter
Scots French
Irish French
Not evey one wears Highland kit (which I'm glad about).

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