Beards in the 18th century

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Andy R
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Postby Andy R » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:14 pm

Phil the Grips wrote:or Andy R finding a way to have his trews an inch too short and wear white socks with black and white checked saddlery :twisted: )


I just found this while searching for "click click click"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeertZ_wBiI

Although you can't beat this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlWxvlQ8Zy4

And no beards either...!
Last edited by Andy R on Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Postby Henrik Bjoern Boegh » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:15 pm

In McLynn's biography on Bonnie Prince Charlie he mentions Charles having grown a red beard during his escape through the Highlands.

I knew I had seen one of the Grant portraits with a bearded character! Thank you, Neil!

I recollect having seen a portrait of a Highlander from the 1700-1720 period with a full beard but without a mustache, but can't remember where...

But I fully agree on the beard issue; it looks out of place in the mid 18th century.
Personally I've said farewell to my beard because of my kit, but my mustashe shows that I'm following the fashions of Europe :wink:

Cheers,
Henrik


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Postby Foxe » Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:41 pm

Fox wrote:How does this apply in a naval context?

I'm thinking particularly in the context emerging from the GAoP, where clearly many nautical captains are famed eponymously for their facial hair.


When you say "many" you mean "one" don't you? :lol:

Aside from Blackbeard, whose fuzz was so noticeable he got a nickname from it, beard wearers seem to have been in the minority amongst seafarers too.

A scan through contemporary pictures of seamen from 1680-1750 shows almost no facial hair except on the French. A quick look through a random selection of notices of 56 runaway seamen from 1700-76 reveals only one bearded man.

On the other hand, in his satirical "The Wooden World" Ned Ward noted that "If you find [a seaman] with mouthacho's, he is certainly a size above ordinary in his own Conceit; ay, and is fansy'd so too by the Women, who wisely infer, that a stiff Pair of Whiskers must needs spring from some secret stiffening Cause or other"

Some might argue that at sea things would be different, however the number of razors mentioned in seamen's probate inventories of the period, and the numerous references to barbers aboard ships would suggest that shaving was as common at sea as it was on land.

In reenactment terms this all probably means:

Clean shaven preferably (or with a dusting of stubble)

Moustache if you're French or have a large belaying pin

Beards not impossible, but uncommon.

Fox, wearer of facial hair since 1992.


Foxe, wearer of facial hair since 1996.

(and who would be interested in the progress of a GWC unit)


...and further this Informant saith not.

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Postby steve stanley » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:53 pm

Thought most Dutch troops wore grey?.....
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Postby Fox » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:18 pm

Foxe wrote:
Fox wrote:...many nautical captains are famed eponymously for their facial hair.


When you say "many" you mean "one" don't you? :lol:


If I think more carefully, and release we're talking non-fiction....
then yes, just the one.



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Postby Scottish Lady » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:30 pm

Old friend of ours sports a beard like a major biblical prophet and been growing it since he was in the white cockade society.
His ancester was out in the 45 with the jacobites and a portrait from tha time shows him clean shaven as per the norm for that period.
It would seem that lawrence is conforming to the romantic stereotype the hairy wild highlander.

the meenister.


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Postby Tod » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:03 am

Scottish Lady wrote:Old friend of ours sports a beard like a major biblical prophet and been growing it since he was in the white cockade society.
His ancester was out in the 45 with the jacobites and a portrait from tha time shows him clean shaven as per the norm for that period.
It would seem that lawrence is conforming to the romantic stereotype the hairy wild highlander.

the meenister.


Yep, I would say so.
Maybe some one should point the NTS towards this thread.



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Postby John Waller » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:50 pm

OK sorry about the 'ginger hedge' quip earlier. If you are really interested in busting the 'hairy highlander' myth it might be worth getting hold of a copy of Madness and Society in Eighteenth Century Scotland by R. A Huston. One conclusion in the book would seem to be that departure from the norms of society in terms of apperance, including having beards and unkempt long hair, was a sure sign that you were a loony.

Mind than would probably suit Clan McHalford "I'm mental ye ken!"

Extracts of the book are available on Google books.

It includes the immortal line "David Smith "is so much an idiot he can not put on his own clothes.... "

One to get on inter-library loan.

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Postby Mark P. » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:07 pm

The other category of C18th 'beardy' that is shown is in representations of Jews in political pamphlets, broadsides and the like.

I think from the C18th British perspective it seems to be:

People like us - no beards
People not like us - beards


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Postby Henrik Bjoern Boegh » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:07 pm

Interestingly I've not seen any bearded Jacobites in any of the Whig propaganda prints from the time of the '45. And I'm sure that the artists working on such prints would have used beards for what they would be worth.

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John Waller
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Postby John Waller » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:44 am

Henrick has a very interesting point. One of the 'rules' of propaganda is to dehumanise your foe. You would think that the government would picture the jacobites as barbarian savages.


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Postby Mark P. » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:03 am

Agree about the propaganda, check out Morier's painting 'An incident in the Rebellion of 1745'. Even if the artist models used to portray Jacobites weren't actual highlanders it would not have been too difficult for him to paint on a couple of beards. In fact stubble seems to be the most that is shown.

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Postby Hraefn » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:53 pm

Only found one 'English' beardy so far and it seems that he's blind! The fiddler on the right hand side of Hogarths 'Chairing The Member' (That sounds like some public school punishment!).

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Postby Mark P. » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:44 pm

I hope this doesn't extend to using outrageuos beards :o

US Civil War influence on centre

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/hig ... 033451.stm
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/hig ... 033451.stm)

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Postby Fox » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:53 pm

With reference to our earlier CUBA!, I've stated a thread on Dutch West India Company uniforms on the 1603-1715.



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Postby steve stanley » Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:59 pm

Mark P. wrote:I hope this doesn't extend to using outrageuos beards :o

US Civil War influence on centre

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/hig ... 033451.stm
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/hig ... 033451.stm)

MP

Dunno...I found Gettysburg a bit like a Re-enactor's Glastonbury...lots of interesting shops,(including kit suppliers)...Very good museum....There are worse places they could get inspiration from!
Steve


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Postby Andysmith » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:41 am

In my younger days I had a beard...then a large 'Freddie Mercury' stylee moustache (before all the 'Village People' connotations)...I thought I was total 'girl-bait' and looked absolutely dashing...my mates thought that I looked a bit of a tw*t. So, the facial hair went...much cooler and I can eat an ice-cream and drink Guinness without embarrassment, however I still look a bit of a tw*t. Ho hum!

Will the NTS carefully airbrush/photoshop out all the 'hairytartanshortbreadseeyoujimmies' chins and top-lips in their spiffing new Culloden Centre film now?



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Postby zauberdachs » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:46 am

slight derailing...

Is the Culloden visitor centre film available to see anywhere online?


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Postby Andysmith » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:53 am

There's a couple of trailers available to see on You Tube (just type in Culloden when you log in as I am 'IT Stupid' and my banana fingers can't get around posting a hyper-link). They're pretty good too...very atmospheric..they get me all excited to see the full film in 'surround-sound-a-vision' in the new Centre. I shall make sure that I take popcorn, a large Kia-Ora and a spare pair of pants.



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Postby zauberdachs » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:00 pm

thanks :)

So the film is in place and ready to watch at the centre?


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Postby Mark P. » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:04 pm

Centre is due to open 'late autumn', no fanfares yet so I presume its not ready yet.

Some films also available via this link then scroll down to bottom of page.


http://www.nts.org.uk/NewsStory/131/

(http://www.nts.org.uk/NewsStory/131/)

The National Trust for Scotland has identified an exciting new way to spread news of the Culloden project across the globe by working in partnership with Scottish Media Group.
The web TV channel, Scotland On TV, was launched to provide a place where anyone with a passion for Scotland could view video clips and programmes about Scotland. No matter where they are located and regardless of what time zone they are in, Scotland enthusiasts can view the Scotland On TV channel.

The Trust is in the midst of a major project to build a new visitor centre at Culloden and is determined to spread the word of this fantastic new facility. The development team at NTS central office are always looking at new ways to spread their fundraising message and because they know that the Culloden battlefield has worldwide interest, Scotland On TV provided the perfect vehicle.

By producing four short films for Scotland On TV about the key aspects of the Culloden project, the NTS team are able to tell the story to an audience they might not otherwise reach. The four video clips are split as follows; The Culloden Walkway, The Archaeology Of The Culloden Site, The New Culloden Visitor Centre and The Culloden Battle History and can be viewed separately. Each one is only a few minutes long.

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Postby zauberdachs » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:18 pm

Fantastic clips on you tube, mostly as you get to see my cleanly shaven self get shot down in a half second snatch...


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Postby Neil Johnston » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:25 pm

Mark P et al
Just for interest.........the latest gossip I have heard

At Prestonpans the NTS people were hoping for an opening date for the new visitor centre of St Andrews Day(Friday 30th Nov) with possible big bash official opening on April 16th next year but this isn't confirmed yet and Nov 30th would clash with CES event in Derby I think.
I don't know how "official" this year's opening will be, whether the film will be shown or even what will be ready in time but since 2007 is the Year of Highland Culture they are very keen to get something done this year.

I really must start growing my beard now for that :P
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Postby Henrik Bjoern Boegh » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:25 pm

Mark P. wrote:Centre is due to open 'late autumn', no fanfares yet so I presume its not ready yet.

Some films also available via this link then scroll down to bottom of page.


http://www.nts.org.uk/NewsStory/131/

(http://www.nts.org.uk/NewsStory/131/)
MP


Excellent stuff! Thanks for the links, Mark! Great to see some more footage from the hand-to-hand fighting and to hear what the directors thoughts on the finished film.

Cheers,
Henrik


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Postby Henrik Bjoern Boegh » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:43 pm

Here's another 18th century highlander with a beard I knew I had seen before! Take a look at the gentleman in the lower right-hand corner:
Image

Does anyone know his name?

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Postby zauberdachs » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:15 pm

rab? hamish? :lol:

sorry, sorry I know....shutting up now.... :oops:


Do not be loath, diligent reader, to winnow my chaff, and lay up the wheat in the storehouse of your memory. For truth regards not who is the speaker, nor in what manner it is spoken, but that the thing be true - Nennius, 8th century

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Postby m300572 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:33 pm

He appears to be an elderly gent - you don't know the date of the protrait do you? If its early 18th he could be perpetuating the fashions of his youth (and from memory the German etchings of highlanders from the 30 years war have beards so possibly someone who was born in the mid 17th (if indeed beards were common then - any ideas, I can only think of Lowland prtraits of the time who tend to have small beards as opposed to this one) might still be sporting one in later life


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Postby Foxe » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:31 pm

He really reminds me of this fellow:

Image
Image

John Worley (1624-c.1721], one of the first Greenwich Pensioners, depicted in 1709 and 1720. Perhaps such full beards were the perogative of the ancient.


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Postby m300572 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:59 pm

Interesting thought - having a beard like an old testament prophet as a sign of your age and venerability - the other possibility tis that these guys were badger smugglers and the goods were stashed in the facial growth! :lol:


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Postby Tod » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:43 pm

Henrik, I've seen that picture before, when ( :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ) I get time I'll see if I can put a name to it.




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