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Webbing pattern dates

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:51 am
by Mark Griffin
We all bandy around the '08, '37, '44 etc etc dates for the different designs and issues of webbing but does anyone have a clearer picture of when the items were actually issued?

I bet troops in Jan '08 didn't suddenly find a nice new pressie on their bunk from the qms (along with a good morning kiss from the RSM) . It does make a difference considering some actions in both wars were fought early in the year, anyone know roughly when the stuff started appearing? I'm also assuming it takes a while for items to reach troops in far flung places as well.

Only just sprung into my head as I was working on a museum project and I was looking at an April date in 44 which mean the bit of kit the museum wanted is unlikely to have been available as it only started production in March 44. That got me thinking on everything else.

Re: Webbing pattern dates

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:43 pm
by Sasha
Have you checked on karkeeweb? It's a good question incidentally. While it's not my direction of interest, for example, I am aware that the 1944 pattern was not issued during the war.

Re: Webbing pattern dates

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:00 pm
by Mark Griffin
surely some bits of it were? The turtle helmet and assault gas mask are part of the 44 issue and some of that was at D-Day surely?

And it pretty sure it turns up in India/Burma.

Re: Webbing pattern dates

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:00 pm
by spydde
Not too sure exactly how it came into use, but from my time in the Air force, all kit has a 'life' ,everything, and would not be replaced until it was expired, lost, or accidentally destroyed, some safety equipment is replaced as soon as is possible (upgraded NBC kit being an example) stuff like webbing would have a long life, as such would be slow to come in , with new recruits most likely to have it first, established units would henceforth be a mish mash of styles.

I well remember items coming in , and being implemented over time, normally between six months and two years, also favoured kit had a tendency to be kept, for example , well broken in boots were worn until fallen apart.. no good going to war with new boots, instant blisters


spydde

Re: Webbing pattern dates

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:17 pm
by acecat999
Sasha wrote:Have you checked on karkeeweb? It's a good question incidentally. While it's not my direction of interest, for example, I am aware that the 1944 pattern was not issued during the war.
response not directed at sasha

seeing the fitting instructions for 44 pattern where written in 1945 I would agree with him
only pics you will find earlier are of the 1st airborne in Norway, just after the surrender - easy to spot as the airborne are also carrying no 5 jungle carbines. and even then it wasn't all of them.


some bits of 37 were issued and made obsolete... altered and reissued.
you can't even guess which bit of the BEF had the most up to date uniforms and webbing in 1939 as they re-equipped TA units before regulars. (lots of guys still in 1922 service dress with 1908 webbing)


mk III turtle helmet first made in 1941 but not issued for use till run up to Dday and then not everyone


and you've forgotten 25 pattern. Braithwaite or 1940 cavalry pattern, leather 39,


as sasha suggests - just read karkeeweb rather than ask questions here of people who only know what they have read on karkeeweb.

Re: Webbing pattern dates

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:48 pm
by Mark Griffin
response not directed at sasha
so at me then....
easy to spot as the airborne are also carrying no 5 jungle carbines. and even then it wasn't all of them.
this is what prompted my initial question, the no 5. only started production in mid March '44 and I'm doing work on April '44 so whereas my client wanted them, I said unlikely.
some bits of 37 were issued and made obsolete... altered and reissued.
no doubt. I wasn't implying that there was some miraculous removal of pre 44 kit all in one go, far be it.
you can't even guess which bit of the BEF had the most up to date uniforms and webbing in 1939 as they re-equipped TA units before regulars. (lots of guys still in 1922 service dress with 1908 webbing)
I don't doubt it. One source I looked at even gives his rifle as having a '21 date.
mk III turtle helmet first made in 1941 but not issued for use till run up to Dday and then not everyone.
Yes, I know when it was generally issued.
and you've forgotten 25 pattern. Braithwaite or 1940 cavalry pattern, leather 39.
No I haven't forgotten it. Thats what the etc, etc was for after the list. Couldn't be arsed to list it all.
as sasha suggests - just read karkeeweb rather than ask questions here of people who only know what they have read on karkeeweb.
I will. Until Sasha mentioned it i was unaware of it so thanks to him for that. But its a tertiary source, I prefer primary stuff as many people can get it wrong. As George MacDonald Fraser says (pPhrasing_) 'many people will tell you the Piat was never issued in Burma but I carried one of the bloody things and fired it 5 times.'

Re: Webbing pattern dates

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:22 pm
by Sasha
karkeeweb are better than lots of websites - they list their controbutors and sources e.g. 44 pattern - http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1944/ ... nuals.html

Re: Webbing pattern dates

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:30 pm
by steve stanley
It's one of the few "out of my period" sites I keep on my favourites to answer the odd "Hmm,I wonder...".....Don't think the '44 was ever universally issued...designed for Far East use and given to Airbourne and Commandos post-war...BTW,a Helmet is NOT part of a webbing set...Just happened to come out same year....... :)

Re: Webbing pattern dates

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:54 pm
by lemonsherbet
This is out of my time frame so I don't understand a single word but a friend of mine has researched RN webbing - don't know if this would be of help or be of interest but here is the link

http://www.navyweb.co.uk/

And I'm sure any questions could be directed to him via https://sites.google.com/site/historica ... mesociety/

Alex