Huge appeal for help

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Ian Harbottle
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Huge appeal for help

Postby Ian Harbottle » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:30 pm

In light of the many problems that Andrew Clark from Military Metalwork is having, does anyone know of anyone who can provide a similar quality of metal work?

Unfortunately I have no masters for the pieces I require and I’m still waiting on the Guards museum to agree if I can take impressions of the originals they have. Until I hear otherwise lets just say for convenience sake I can’t take impressions and will therefore need the items to be made from scratch.



I need the following items but unfortunately not in large quantities.

• 1815 period 3rd Foot Guards pewter buttons,
• 1815 period 3rd Foot Guards gilt buttons.
• 3rd Foot Guards brass cross-belt plate.
• 3rd Foot Guards gilt and enamelled cross-belt plate.
• 3rd Foot Guards brass Belgic shako plate.
• 3rd Foot Guards gilt and enamelled Belgic shako plate.
• 3rd Foot Guards brass cartridge pouch badge.

I can provide dimensions, sketches and photos of the originals but not the originals themselves. I require prices both for the items themselves and for any artwork, masters, moulds, etc.

If anyone knows of anyone who can undertake this type of work or you are a person who can do it can you please P.M. me and I can give you further details.

Many thanks in advance for any help provided.


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Eric the well read
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Postby Eric the well read » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:02 pm

Hi Ian,

For Shako plates try Mel Secker.
http://sites.google.com/site/toadshakos/

Couldn't you also try buying an original button off e-bay and using that to cast from?

Regards
Eric



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Mark P.
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Postby Mark P. » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:30 pm

Try these guys, it a new enterprise but from experienced re-enactors. I think they could definatley do the pewter for you. The website is not the finished article yet but I can provide direct contact details if you want

http://www.tinkerstailor.com/wordpress/clothing-kits/


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Postby Dixie » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:33 pm

Try John Anastasio
http://www.napoleonic-uniforms.co.uk/Welcome.html
He is doing a French oval shako plate for us from a drawing.
There will be a minimum order for this.
If you want his telephone number drop me a pm and I will try and hunt it out.
Best of Luck
Andrew


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John Waller
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Postby John Waller » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:44 pm

These might be worth a punt

http://www.fattorini.co.uk

http://www.gladman-norman.co.uk

Peter Green - Supplier of Military Badges and Medals
p-r-green@hotmail.com

http://www.militaryheritage.com/napbrit.htm


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Ian Harbottle
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Postby Ian Harbottle » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:39 pm

Thanks guys this gives me plenty to work from. Once again this forum has proved how invaluable it is to re-enactors.

Thanks for all your help.


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Postby Nigel » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:56 pm

Or Toby of the silver wyvern

posts on hereas Henry somerset

does fab work


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Postby wurzul » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:27 am

Word of advice on The Discriminating General (http://www.militaryheritage.com/napbrit.htm).
Nice guy, but doesn't really do email. Your best bet is to phone him.



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Neibelungen
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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby Neibelungen » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:52 pm

A bit late for a reply, but might be usefull for anybody else planning on 3rd Foot Guards.

Recently project underway for the Royal Armories.

Image


Image


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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby Kate1812 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:49 pm

with regards to The Discriminating General a couple of our guys have had crossbelt plates on order since June last year, when finally presed this month for a date he said he was so busy with film and museum work he wouldn't be starting work on re-enactors orders until June.


This is so simple a child of 5 could understand it......quick fetch me a child of 5!

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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby Neibelungen » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:18 am

with regards to The Discriminating General ....he wouldn't be starting work on re-enactors orders until June.


Give him a couple of years more and he'll be getting as bad as me !!!!


Films can be a real troublesome thing though... they start off small and reasonably simple most of the time, if a bit manic for deadlines. But they soon explode into something almost uncontrollable... can you do this a bit, and add this one in... and perhaps a few extra ones. Oh, and we forgot the second crew shoot team, who need x plus some spares.. and while your at it can you squeeze a couple of these in .

I've switched over to a shop format now.. only shows what I actually have made to hand.. the rest you know won't be available for .. ever ?.

p*ssed too many people off and it's incredibly difficult to get away from have a very bad reputation. Something I've got to work very very hard to salvage some how ?


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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby John Waller » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:32 am

Neibelungen wrote:A bit late for a reply, but might be usefull for anybody else planning on 3rd Foot Guards.

Recently project underway for the Royal Armories.

Image


Image


Nice. But I think you have missed the boat with Ian's group. I think they have abandoned the 3rd Foot Guards and are concentrating on War of 1812 projects.

I'll mention them to Mr Lobb though when I see him as he portrays a 3rd Gds staff officer and he should really have the correct bling.


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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby Andy R » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:07 am

Neibelungen wrote:p*ssed too many people off and it's incredibly difficult to get away from have a very bad reputation. Something I've got to work very very hard to salvage some how ?


On a positive note, your quality speaks for itself.

Given your availability, I would buy tarletons off you like a shot.


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die

http://www.16ld.org

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Neibelungen
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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby Neibelungen » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:43 pm

On a positive note, your quality speaks for itself.

Given your availability, I would buy tarletons off you like a shot.


Bit like a chocolate teapot. No bloody good, especially if you can even never get them.


On a side note, I'm planning to get a stall at both of the main re-enactment Markets in November, as a come-back launch. With a bit of luck I should have a fair display of completed stuff available then, focusing on existing units and what they might need. Stock only, though.

People get upset with promises that never materialise and I can't do that any more. Hard enough catching up with the previous mistakes without adding even more woes to the basket.

Will aim to have sets of buttons, crossbelt plates and shako plates geared to existing regiments and hopefully will try to liase with each of them over the summer as to what they consider the correct pattern. Not much point bringing a new range out if none of the actual units wants to use them.

Focussing on trying to get things right and very accurate from the off. I've been playing around with die stamping, mostly buttons and small badges so far, so can get away from castings and electroforms (which are great for officer's gilt copper stuff, but no good for brassware - even plated and lacquered, it's still just wrong).
Karl (the tudor leather worker) Robinson, has shown me the importance of getting even unnoticed things like properly dyeing the leather right from the off. Start out with a compromise and you just end up going down-hill from there. Some things have to be, but there's a lot that doesn't.

Pewter buttons with the correct iron shanks inserted into the backs. White linen threads. Waxed and polished (jacked) flesh side leathers.
Matt and burnished 24K gilding (none of this bright gold 9K crap). Tinning the brass and iron buckles.

None of it's cheap to do, but there's a few people who want things done right. It's the difference between glorified fancy dress and reconstructions.


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Andy R
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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby Andy R » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:58 pm

Hi Andy,

comparing your coming soon RHA tarleton badge...
Image

with an original Light Cavalry without distinction tarleton badge
Image

and the fact you have two existing LD units with tarletons wanting these badges, and another in the inception phase - how viable would it be for you to create a LD tarleton badge from the RHA one. I'm only looking at the difference in motto rather than the issue with slight difference in the way the GR is presented. As that last part is open to so many differences according to who was making them and when, unless you have information to the contrary, I'm not worried by it. And all three LD regiments share the same badge motto.

Just a thought.


Cheers,
Andy


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby Neibelungen » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:31 pm

Not at all difficult since I took the original Honi Soit out to put the RHA motto in , in the first instance.

I actually toyed with the idea of doing the GR more along those lines than the curvacious one in mine, so can do that too.


Will look hard at getting one done after April if there's a demand for them.

Interesting crown design , seen it before on a few items, mostly W1V and G1V. Seems slightly Victorian at first glance. Early Victoria ones often have a double row of purls on the arms.

Seen the badge up on ebay I think , but wondered if it it might be a faked version, though very good.


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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby Andy R » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:59 pm

This one - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Officers-Tarleton-Helmet-XII-Light-Dragoons-c1790_W0QQitemZ280376592619QQcmdZViewItem

He wants £7,800 for it. Sure it was more before Christmas.

Let me know how you get on - I have two tarletons in need of a badge, and in the process of trying to source more tarletons - and there's a 12th revival as well as the 18th LD.

So I think there will be a demand.



Cheers,
Andy


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



http://www.16ld.org

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Neibelungen
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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby Neibelungen » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:44 pm

Thought there was something about that badge that puzzled me.... now I know.

Image

That's the early RHA one I altered made from the casting that identical to the one on the side of that helmet. That's what bugged me about it......

Should be about 3" high on the side of the tarleton...... Cast brass or a copper e/form with two 5/8" copper lugs on the back, top and bottom.

Yep... 95% certain I made it.

Will photograph my original for you tommorrow and post the two up side by side.


But to answer your question about the badge.... yes, I can do you an exact copy. !!!!!!!




I Will have to be very carefull about how I phrase this, though if it's gone through the same hand I suspect on it's path in life.... The skull originated in my workshop as well. Have a look at the RHa helmet he selling... Indian Madras about 1840 poss or a early copy... definately had the base of that in my workshop at one time too... the chinscales on it are my work.


99% of anything selling on Ebay is not going to genuine, or is a cobled together amalg from poss original parts that are about 70+ years old and aged down.


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Neibelungen
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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby Neibelungen » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:31 am

Addendum to previous post

I think this is more likely to be the design you want of an original They should be at least 4" and in some cases nearly 5"

Image


I've a copy of the notes compiled in one of the early JSAHR (think about vol 20 ish), which has the details of tarleton badges taken from Hawkes' pattern books for their silversmith.. gives a lot of details of which regt had which badge design.. more than one in a few cases.

I went through my old work book for about 2002.. Traced out where that scull went and why... Fast Eddy ring a bell with enybody. I was experimenting with jacking and patenting leather sculls for tarletons... You see the cracking on the surface of that one. Not enough olive oil in the shellac base, so it chips and cracks rather than flexes with the paint.

Overbake the leather... you can age it pretty well to get that red-rot flaking effect seen on the liner and peak.
Natural yogurt and HP sauce , plus overdried brasso takes care of the metalwork.


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Andy R
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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby Andy R » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:24 am

You didn't do this one too did you?

Now this one of course has a more PoW feal about it haveing the feathers on the side unlike the fleaBay one.

I had a look at the Franklin book last night which shows the 16th having the GR cypher when I would have thought they would have had Queen Charlotte's
Attachments
12LD_tarleton.jpg


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



http://www.16ld.org

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Neibelungen
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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby Neibelungen » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:05 pm

Andy,

Can't say for certain if that's mine. The POW badge looks like one I did for the Troop (X11th) along with the boss on the chinscales.

Image

That's the original of the badge you were looking at.


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Re: Huge appeal for help

Postby Andy R » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:53 pm

I am trying to tie down some British Napoleonic tarleton details.

I have always taken it as read that the metalwork was brass - having gone through quite a few contemporary prints and extent examples, 95% (if not more) of what I have seen has tin trim and scales (where appropriate), but not all

If the scales, trim and scroll are white metal, any idea if the badge would follow suite?


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



http://www.16ld.org


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