The Great Start Up debate

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
steve stanley
Post Knight
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: Leicester

Post by steve stanley »

Will await seeing prototype with interest.........
Steve
"Give me a tent and a kettle
Snowshoes and axe and gun
Send me up in Grand River
Steering by star and sun".
- Labrador Trapper's Song

User avatar
Foxe
Post Centurion
Posts: 759
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: Defending Devon from French invasion
Contact:

Post by Foxe »

<Glancing nervously at my bank balance...>

Tod, have you seen this? A boot recovered from the wreck of HMS Stirling Castle (sank 1703), don't half look like a short lace up boot to me, albeit a crappy picture of one.

Image
...and further this Informant saith not.

Foxe

'Don't be fooled by his general air of living in a skip'

http://www.etfox.co.uk

User avatar
Tod
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2884
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:25 am
Location: A small part of Scotland hidden in middle England
Contact:

Post by Tod »

A shoe with two lace holes maybe, not as uncommon as you might think. Where did you find the picture?

User avatar
Foxe
Post Centurion
Posts: 759
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: Defending Devon from French invasion
Contact:

Post by Foxe »

IIRC it was sent to me by the curator of Ramsgate Maritime Museum in response to a query I sent him.

It looks to me to be a little higher than your average shoe, but as I said, it's not the best picture.
...and further this Informant saith not.

Foxe

'Don't be fooled by his general air of living in a skip'

http://www.etfox.co.uk

User avatar
steve stanley
Post Knight
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: Leicester

Post by steve stanley »

http://frontierfolk.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... 139#189139 The debate spreads to the new world..............
Steve
"Give me a tent and a kettle
Snowshoes and axe and gun
Send me up in Grand River
Steering by star and sun".
- Labrador Trapper's Song

User avatar
Bevis Gittens
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:50 pm
Location: Brighton, UK

Re:

Post by Bevis Gittens »

Tod wrote:Wow that was 2 years that I last posted on this thread. Since then I've done a lot of research. There is no evidence for laced start up style boots or the low laced boot that has appeared in the last few years.
All the pictorial evidence shows a pull on boot, at present I'm in the process of doing the patterns for these. As I put somewhere on this thread, think leather wellies.
Not wanting to stir up this nest but thought you might like to see the closest picture I have found of lace up startups... It is a charcoal maker dated 1610 from a statute dictating charcoal sack sizes. I say closest because the picture shows the boots with what looks like a slash/opening on the front but does not show any laces. As you say Tod all the other startup pictures look like 'wellies' that are pulled on.... Also looking through 'Stepping through time', which is admittedly is based on Dutch finds not British, there are no lace up startups: Toggled, pull on boots but no laced.

Image

Image

.....and I've just ordered some Sarah Juniper startups... never mind

Bevis

PS I don't do soldiering anymore, just poor rural peasant types so I’m allowed them :lol:
Bevis G
Wood Collier

User avatar
Tod
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2884
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:25 am
Location: A small part of Scotland hidden in middle England
Contact:

Re: The Great Start Up debate

Post by Tod »

I watched Dan Snow on TV last night, he made an excelent statement. "Was the artist telling the truth". In this case the bloke with the sack looks almost naked except the boots, the bloke on the left looks like he has Tudor slip on shoes (late C16).
The boots mabe slashed but that would be daft, maybe they have a closed gusset and we can't see the closing?

User avatar
steve stanley
Post Knight
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: Leicester

Re: The Great Start Up debate

Post by steve stanley »

IMHO,they look a bit like those 15th/16th cent boots that pull the slack round & buckle/lace...?
"Give me a tent and a kettle
Snowshoes and axe and gun
Send me up in Grand River
Steering by star and sun".
- Labrador Trapper's Song

Nigel
Post Knight
Posts: 1677
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:45 am
Location: Pontefract
Contact:

Re: The Great Start Up debate

Post by Nigel »

A fair few pics in Occuaptional costume wot Debs has unfortunately no scanner :(
There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

Chris T
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Plymouth, Devon

Re: The Great Start Up debate

Post by Chris T »

The cover illustration of Mercurius Rusticus shows a pair of calf boots with what certainly looks like multiple lace holes........I really do not think that you can use period illustrations to prove a negative, especially as most are woodcuts or similar that lack detail.

Personally I think the 'doc martin' style lacing is not the most probable period fastening, as it does not seem to have become popular for several hundred years, and so seems a little unlikely for an old fashioned footwear style. Other posibilities include buckles, toggles, single lace, multiple laces through pairs of soles ,toggled/ eyeletted laces passing round the boot, and so on. It also needs to be considered that it is not required for an opening being on the front: many earlier short boots opened at the side.

Chris T
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Plymouth, Devon

Re: The Great Start Up debate

Post by Chris T »


cloudy-cola-corp
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: The Great Start Up debate

Post by cloudy-cola-corp »

i thought they where called start ups because they where fairly generic enough to get away with being used in more than one period seeing as some of us multi period people can't afford to spend £120 on two pairs of shoes that quite honestly arn't very water proof (although my medieval shoes from tod have honestly never leaked) when they can buy one pair of boots for £100 that will roughly cover both periods


Post Reply