ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
STEENIE
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:17 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby STEENIE » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:15 pm

Here is another 'nice' buff coat on ebay :roll:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Buff-leather- ... 1e5a953e8b


We feast upon those that seek to subdue us. (Adams Family motto but suits my family exactly)

User avatar
John Waller
Post Knight
Posts: 1551
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:36 pm
Location: Surrey

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby John Waller » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:23 pm



Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

Chris T
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Plymouth, Devon

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby Chris T » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:49 pm

The e-bay one is, sadly, a typical example of what you often get on the internet these days.....



User avatar
Tod
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2884
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:25 am
Location: A small part of Scotland hidden in middle England
Contact:

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby Tod » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:09 pm

They sell the same armour etc as the other ebayer who was banned from here.



User avatar
Ranter
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:18 am

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby Ranter » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:12 am

New to this forum

Read the whole of this thread with interest. Wonder how you guys missed the chap standing offset centre in Franz Hals'
"Officers and Sergeants of the St Hadrian's Civic Guard."
Now there is an interesting "foot" "sleeveless" buff coat. I cannot say that there might not be a degree of artistic license in this painting (I just love the extended "epaulette like" armsyces.) but the garment is very interesting and shows clearly the "drape! mentioned in previous posts. After all, these were supposed to be portraits.....

http://www.backtoclassics.com/gallery/franshals/officersandsergeantsofthesthadriancivicguard/



User avatar
STEENIE
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:17 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby STEENIE » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:00 pm

Ranter wrote:New to this forum

Read the whole of this thread with interest. Wonder how you guys missed the chap standing offset centre in Franz Hals'
"Officers and Sergeants of the St Hadrian's Civic Guard."
Now there is an interesting "foot" "sleeveless" buff coat. I cannot say that there might not be a degree of artistic license in this painting (I just love the extended "epaulette like" armsyces.) but the garment is very interesting and shows clearly the "drape! mentioned in previous posts. After all, these were supposed to be portraits.....

http://www.backtoclassics.com/gallery/franshals/officersandsergeantsofthesthadriancivicguard/



Nice one! Well spotted!


We feast upon those that seek to subdue us. (Adams Family motto but suits my family exactly)

Dathi
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:35 pm
Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby Dathi » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:42 am

Dutch Schuttji paintings are full of buffcoats from 1610- ish to the 1650's

Try "Maaltijd van zeventien schutters van de Handboogdoelen onder kapitein Geurt van Beuningen 1613" for starters to "Officers and men of the Company of captain Cornelis de Graeff and lieutenant Hendrick Lauwrensz, 1642" or "Officers and Standard-Bearers of the Old Civic Guard by Caesar van EVERDINGEN 1657" or "Schutters van de compagnie van kapitein Jan Claesz. Vlooswijck en luitenant Gerrit Hudde, 1642" or "Schutters van de compagnie van kapitein Joan Huydecoper en luitenant Frans van Waveren, 1648" or "Schutters van het vendel van kapitein Abraham Boom en luitenant Oetgens van Waveren, 1623" or "The Company of Captain Albert Bas and Lieutenant Lucas Conijn 1645 Govert Flinck" to name just a handfull



User avatar
STEENIE
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:17 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby STEENIE » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:56 pm

This is still on Ebay

It is a f--- ing abortion!!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Buff-leather- ... 1e5a953e8b


We feast upon those that seek to subdue us. (Adams Family motto but suits my family exactly)

Dathi
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:35 pm
Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby Dathi » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:45 pm

Spotted this in the painting "Maaltijd van zeventien schutters van de Handboogdoelen onder kapitein Geurt van Beuningen 1613"

Look at the thickness in that shoulder :D
Attachments
close up.jpg



Chris T
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Plymouth, Devon

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby Chris T » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:36 pm

I am particularly interested in the dark bands decorated buffcoats from the 1620s TYW buffcoats. There is at least one portrait showing these in the 'Swedish' Osprey book, and I seem to have seen another couple, but always in black and white.

Does anybody have any colour versions showing these bands: they seem to be dark and non metalic, but this is not clear in the B/W versions.



Mark Griffin
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 4240
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:28 pm
Location: Wales. Only just!
Contact:

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby Mark Griffin » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:42 pm

one in the Museum of ondon store has black bands. Or at least thats what you see in a passing glance but close up you can see its silver lace thats oxidised. Doubt a painter at the time would show that of course, but a handy thing to remember.


http://www.griffinhistorical.com. A delicious decadent historical trifle. Thick performance jelly topped with lashings of imaginative creamy custard. You may also get a soggy event management sponge finger but it won't cost you hundreds and thousands.

Dathi
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:35 pm
Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby Dathi » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:13 am

Appears to be one with dark bands in the a painting "Civic Guardsmen from the Company of Captain Jacob Pieterszn Hooghkamer and Lieutenant Pieter Jacobszn van Rijn, 1628" from Dutch sources. All the other schutterij paintings from the same time frame seem to show silver or gold bands.

Oddly enough, by the 1630's that sort of banding largely disappears from Dutch schutterij paintings



Chris T
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Plymouth, Devon

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby Chris T » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:06 am

They seem to have been a short lived thing, only in the 1620s....the Swedish ones seem to have disapeared by the 30's as well.

This is quite interesting in itself, as this is before the Swedish intervention in the TYW, so implies more similarities between different nations than is sometimes thought...



Dathi
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:35 pm
Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby Dathi » Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:21 am

We forget just how mobile what we would call mercenary troops were and quite willing to move from army to army without a care. And just how many people, not just officers, travelled to various wars. Let's not forget that a considerable number of English, Welsh, Irish and Scots fought overseas, just as part of their education process. Nobody would refer to Sir Thomas Fairfax as a mercenary but Fairfax did fight in the Low Countries under Sir Horace Vere and not as part of an offical Crown force



User avatar
steve stanley
Post Knight
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: Leicester

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby steve stanley » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:35 am

I think there were Dutch/Swedish links pre-dating the TYW.....Dutch were the arsenal of Protestant powers....


"Give me a tent and a kettle
Snowshoes and axe and gun
Send me up in Grand River
Steering by star and sun".
- Labrador Trapper's Song

User avatar
Neibelungen
Post Centurion
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:56 pm
Location: Leeds
Contact:

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby Neibelungen » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:24 pm

The black part from those illustrations is a fabric backing of cloth or braid, which the lace is sewn down to. You can see a non-backed identical lace on the breeches. Simplifies the sewing process as it can be removed easily from the black and edge stitching braid down to thick leather would be a real pain.. The black can be tacked down eaily under the lace.

I'd suspect on the other illustrations it would be a couple of alternatives.. a plain black lace or cloth strip, a decorative leather oversewn with a fabric panel inserted (an imitation of slashing with a lace bound edge -- not really wanted on a solid buff coat) or a raised line of butt stitching (often seen bordering belts and sword hangers)


Military Metalwork
Accoutrements, Regalia, Headdres & Metalwork

http://www.militarymetalwork.co.uk

Chris T
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Plymouth, Devon

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby Chris T » Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:15 pm

The ones I am talking about seem to be wide and plain: probably a woven ribbon type material.

They are certainly not a line of tunnel stitching, nor is there any indication of metal / false slashing etc. As to them being black, that is the problem: in the black and white illustrations they appear dark: but this could be anything from a red, blue, green or whatever, right through to black. That is why I am trying to establish if anybody knows of a couloured version.....



Dathi
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:35 pm
Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: ECW Infantry Buff Coat

Postby Dathi » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:39 pm

Found this on the Rijksmusuem site

http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/collectie/SK- ... der-hoeven

The full size picture seems to show silver braid on a cloth backing




Return to “1603-1715”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests