Flodden kit and info please

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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Tod » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:17 am

Exactly John.
I don't want to confuse things, have you already done some work on this?



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby John Waller » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:37 am

Tod wrote:Exactly John.
I don't want to confuse things, have you already done some work on this?


Apart from one telephone call and a number of emails and online posts and talking to a few people I've not done much. Mainly I fed ideas and offers of help to Clive in the way of offering to introduce him to some movers and shakers in re-enactment community and to a historian with re-enactment experience who might help with scripting etc. Not much take up from his end but perhaps it's all in hand? I just dread an appeal for participents six months before any event and just a hoard of tartan clad wang merchants turning up because anyone with an appreciation of the event has already been booked up for something else.


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby EwanDoc » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:30 pm

My group could well be interested in doing this, but like many of the groups in Scotland, we aren't that big.

Personally, I would be a against about going out on the battlefield itself, but I didn't gather whether that was the intention or not in the thread.

Regarding Bannockburn, it will be a big event, the Scottish Government are proposing a 'Homecoming 2' to mark the occassion (what Bannockburn has to do with Scottish immegration I don't know) but if the SNP are still in power, it could be the tartan twee of last year all over again...


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Andy R » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:53 am

Mmmmmmmm, tartanalia........
(just say NO)


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby John Waller » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:32 pm

Flodden day was yesterday. So less than three years to go. Time will fly by. I have requested access to the Flodden 500 stakeholders discussion area on their website. I'll let you know if there is anything of interest therein If I get access.


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby EwanDoc » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:13 pm

Was at Etal Castle yesterday, they have a rather good Flodden exhibition there. When I asked the lady there about the anniversary, she said that there were definitiely plans in the works for a big event in 2013.


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Tod » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:27 am

I've made contact so will try and get things moving. From what I can gather there is lot of red tape but I've dealt with that before.
I'll post any info in new thread titled "Flodden event" as I get it.
I've started getting kit together, Jackie Phillips (Cloaked and Daggered) is making my soft kit and I'm in discussion with a few armourers.



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Thor Ewing » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:12 pm

Tod wrote:I've got info on 16th century Highlanders, although how many were there is questionable.


Two of the commanders (Lennox and Argyll) were Highlanders and would surely have brought Highland armies to the field - not just the MacPharlanes and Campbells, but associated clans as well. My Ewing ancestors for instance would probably have been there with Lennox their feudal overlord in 1513.

I would have thought that aketons and claymores would indeed be appropriate for Highlanders. I'm not sure why this suggestion was dismissed.

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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Tess » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:36 pm

Hi Tod

I am seeing Sarah Thursfield on the 19th - will ask her if she has any info.

Tx



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Tod » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:53 pm

Thanks.



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Grymm » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:09 pm

This mob were talking about doing Flodden a couple of years back, they are UK based 'nactors who occasionally larp(Hence the big poleaxey style loofahs, even the fayest of ecw pikemen could'nt object to getting bopped with a foam hammer, could they?)
and post...or at least used to, here. I think they are/were Beauforts.
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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Andy R » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:58 am

s'nice :D


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Alan_F » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:42 pm

Andy R wrote:s'nice :D


Agreed!

Bumping this up - any news on the event?


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Tod » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:21 pm

I made contqact and am waiting for the chap to come south so we can meet (he has family near me).



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Alan_F » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:35 pm

Thor Ewing wrote:I would have thought that aketons and claymores would indeed be appropriate for Highlanders. I'm not sure why this suggestion was dismissed.

Best wishes,
Thor



Because the vast majority of troops in Scotland wouldn't have carried a Claymore, let alone those from the Highlands. I'm not even sure if they exist at this period and if they do, they would have been more in the realms of those who were rich enough to afford one.

There would have been troops from the whole of Scotland, however the majority would have been Lowlands troops (as indicated in the order of Battle). The dress would have have been pretty much the same as the English, some of the highland troops would have been dressed in more traditional attire (such as brat and leine), however this would have been against, rather than, the norm.


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Tod » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:30 am

I need to check back but I'd agree with Alan. Part of the "big" plan is to have a kit list.



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Alan_F » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:58 am

Tod wrote:I need to check back but I'd agree with Alan. Part of the "big" plan is to have a kit list.



Tod, one of the things that can be said is this is the period when the Highland economy is doing poorly, after years of warfare to bring them into line with the rest of Scotland: Certainly aketons and Leine (from what I've seen so far) would have been the norm, although there would have been one or two exceptions. Amongst the richer Lowland troops (or at least those who could afford it) there would, as I understand it, been waffenfrocks - James IV was keen to embrace the latest trends from the continent, being very much the Renaissance king. Amongst the other Lowland troops, I'd go for livery coats as the norm.


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby weasleywez » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:07 pm

You know we were just talking about this at Towton yesterday I would say that I could get the cliffords interested as we used to go up and do the border gathering every year.
In regards to the event it might be best to follow suit of the Towton commemoration, and have a small encampment of re-enactors with battle field walks and some displays showing the work on the battle field site. (though I larger event would be more fun!)


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Jenn » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:48 pm

I would say the majority of troops would be dressed like this
http://www.tudortailor.com/bookshoptks.shtml
it's a pretty good guide to the clothing of the period for most men who were likely to be fighting at Flodden
*yes I know there would be some exceptions but even they wouldn't wearing anything we would recognise as tartan or carrying a claymore or wearing a kilt*
Those exceptions are of course the Highlanders but it does depend who they are and where they come from - many had by this period adopted essentially the same fashions as everywhere else - others were still dressed distinctively. However they weren't in the majority at Flodden and I would happily argue that most men would be dressed like those in the book above



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Donald_McQuag » Wed May 04, 2011 6:28 pm

Hey there as a member of the Cabbots Company Group (from the aforementioned german Lrp Event)
We all have Early Henrican Kit (1513 compatible) for English billmen and longbowmen, as well as camp equipment and I will be meeting up with them again at the end of the month,
we are really interested in getting involved in the aniverssary of flodden event, I will mention to the group organisers that it's now coming up in discussion again
oh and Nigel my dad joe says you were asking after me on face book put a search in for this name in his friends list and thats me!
now to save up for that set of Almain Rivet....


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Hetman » Wed May 04, 2011 9:25 pm

William Sinclair, The Earl of Caithness, led between 500 - 1000 highlanders to the battle all dressed in green.



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Thor Ewing » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:55 am

Jenn wrote:*yes I know there would be some exceptions but even they wouldn't wearing anything we would recognise as tartan or carrying a claymore or wearing a kilt*


I'm glad to see that aketons have now been judged appropriate to Highlanders for this period.
But why the continued resistance to claymores? The first claymores were used in the 1400's and they began to lose favour after about 1600 (although it's said they were still in use at Killiecrankie). So surely, 1513 is near-enough the zenith of the claymore as a Highland weapon. Granted, it's an expensive weapon and some Highlanders might have carried axes instead, but the claymore would have been the weapon of choice for most.

I agree with others that the typical Highland dress for this period would have been a dyed linen shirt with or without a woollen cloak. I'd go further and say that these cloaks might well have been patterned in a way which would suggest tartan to our eyes. However, this isn't battle dress; aketons and maille were the order of the day for Highland warfare.

The Sinclairs of course are in an interesting position, and serve to illustrate the difficulty of making a hard-and-fast Highland/Lowland cultural division. The Highlanders I have been thinking about would have been mostly from the West Highlands.

I fully agree that these "Wild Scots" would have been in a minority on the battlefield of Flodden, but any who were there would have looked very different to their Lowland compatriots.

Best wishes,
Thor



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby guthrie » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:08 pm

I think she might be using claymore in the "generic highlander sense" rather than the specific history persons sense. What is your definition of a claymore of the period?



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby ivanhoe » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:26 pm

Hello Iam new to this site and I would like to know more about the Flodden event in 2013, I have been reenacting for 11years I do Boer war ,and used to do American Civil War (Confederate ) I have visited Flodden Several times and would love to take part in a Reenactment there , I have read a lot about the Battle and have a reasonable understanding of the Arms and Armour of the Period

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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby ivanhoe » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:14 pm

At Flodden the Scots and English would look similiar to each other , Highland Scots would not have worn Kilts or anything that to Modern eyes looks Highland ,Braveheart style nonsense, Blue faces etc , some of the better off Highlanders would have carried Claymores , Swords were and still are Expensive , a lot of the Lowland Scots would be wearing Plate Armour, James IV had been making Armour at Stirling and buying in Armour from the Continent, so all in all The Scots had a fairly modern Army wih a large ArtilleryTrain The English Army was not much different to the men that had fought at the Battle of Bosworth , but Crucialy had experienced German Gunners which would make a big difference to the outcome.



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby ivanhoe » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:21 pm

EwanDoc wrote:Osprey's 'Scottish Renaissance Army 1513-1550' is a good book with some cracking illustrations by Graham Turner, not hugely detailed in the text but a good overview. The Osprey Flodden book might be worth a look, but I've not read it myself.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scottish-Renais ... 478&sr=1-6

Its A good Book I have it myself
Last edited by ivanhoe on Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby ivanhoe » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:34 pm

ivanhoe wrote:
EwanDoc wrote:Osprey's 'Scottish Renaissance Army 1513-1550' is a good book with some cracking illustrations by Graham Turner, not hugely detailed in the text but a good overview. The Osprey Flodden book might be worth a look, but I've not read it myself.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scottish-Renais ... 478&sr=1-6

Its A good Book I have it myself I also have the osprey Flodden book very good as well



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Man from Coventry » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:00 pm

Clive Hallam-Barker has written an article in this months skirmish asking for re-enactment groups to come forward.

His contact details are 01890 - 820901, clivehb@gmail.com


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Tod » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:59 pm

ivanhoe wrote:
ivanhoe wrote:
EwanDoc wrote:Osprey's 'Scottish Renaissance Army 1513-1550' is a good book with some cracking illustrations by Graham Turner, not hugely detailed in the text but a good overview. The Osprey Flodden book might be worth a look, but I've not read it myself.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scottish-Renais ... 478&sr=1-6

Its A good Book I have it myself I also have the osprey Flodden book very good as well


I think its the Osprey Flodden book that has some god awful pictures.



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Mark Griffin » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:34 pm

A very good read with more info in is Charles Kieghtlys book. It looks slight, even a bit like a childrens book, but its not. Well worth seeking out.

Having done many talks and lectures on the subject and era I'd be interested in taking part. Having a spot on 1513 harness a decent cavalry impression for either sides knobs would be fine.

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