Flodden kit and info please

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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby steve stanley » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:15 am

For you,not odd at all....frightens me,the number of outfits I could put together.....but Elizabethan at the earliest!


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby guthrie » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:17 am

Nigel wrote:its easy

Am thinking do we need to take this away as much as I hate to suggest it it would a facebook page be a step forward ?

No, because facebook is evil. Hence whilst some on this thread are on facebook, others aren't, including myself.
I'm not saying that googlegroups are any better in terms of privacy, but it might be worth considering something else like that.

Clearly it is time Phil had another clear out.

(My own vision for the event, not that anyone will pay any attention, will include a military camp and a civilian "see what life was like at the court and towns" camp, which latter would naturally include me as James the 4ths alchemist, although I'd nip away to take part in the battle)



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Nigel » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:20 am

How about a yahoo group then ?

I have some evil ideas how to do this that I don't want to share on a site like this as it sort of invlolves hijackign a castle and strongarming a load of cash out of various organisations


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby guthrie » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:26 am

Sounds good to me. (Although I forget who owns yahoo now, the group or two I'm in don't have any trouble)
Yes, taking over castles is ewntirely period, I'vejust checked my library and it seems the Scots took NOrham in a few days then later Ford and Etal.



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Nigel » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:35 am

I'll speak to Todd this is hais game and would be rude to go off on a tangent


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Andy R » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:28 pm

Lindsay wrote:The Flodden book isn't Angus MacBride, it's Stephen Walsh... A MacBride book I might actually have bought as they do look nice, these ones just don't! He also illustrated the Otterburn book, just as badly!

Andy R wrote:Angus MacBride - nice artist, but attention to detail is lacking. The artwork in reid's Highlanders 1689 to 1745 is worse than this. Waistcoats with shirts a plenty :cry:


But the Border reiver's book with the plate on Flodden is..!
(And Henry VIII army with plates on Flodden and the 1513 French campaign)


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die

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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Andy R » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:49 pm

Nigel wrote:achetons bascinets and BIG swords doesn't that do the trick ?


Hi Nige,

that sounds very Kingdom of the Isles from the late Scots Wars of Indipendance (going from the info on the Gadgedlar site of old) and not too disimilar to what they have in a couple of secondary sources - except the bascinet - and I know it's secondary and not to be trusted, but what they do show seem to be simpler helms (like secrets and open face salets and the sort - basic head protection)

And mail shirts of course. Shown in the secondary sources, and also primary writen sources.

Be interesting to see what proportion were bow armed.


Any idea how popular the base coat was in this period?


And Landsknchts of course, there was a contingent on the Scots side, and a number of groups do them


Fantastic analogy with Prestonpans - The 1995 event was fantastic, and I hope the current event someday manages to match what was done there.


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Nigel » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:58 pm

that sounds very Kingdom of the Isles from the late Scots Wars of Indipendance (going from the info on the Gadgedlar site of old) and not too disimilar to what they have in a couple of secondary sources - except the bascinet - and I know it's secondary and not to be trusted, but what they do show seem to be simpler helms (like secrets and open face salets and the sort - basic head protection)

And mail shirts of course. Shown in the secondary sources, and also primary writen sources.

Be interesting to see what proportion were bow armed.

Going on descriptions and a bit of imagery forgot maille and bows appear to be pretty popular if I recall I think James was relying on the Highland /Isles contingents to supply the skirmishers he needed to fight in the German way


Any idea how popular the base coat was in this period? No but I have just commissioned one in Fenwick colours


And Landsknchts of course, there was a contingent on the Scots side, and a number of groups do them True


Fantastic analogy with Prestonpans - The 1995 event was fantastic, and I hope the current event someday manages to match what was done there.

Thanks my thoughts are book a site try to work along side the current plans but if that fails then hey raise some sponsorship ()and we wont need that much) get the right folks they commit to sorting their kit out toa greed communicated standards and we hopefully have a great gig


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Nigel » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:44 pm

guthrie wrote:
Nigel wrote:its easy


(My own vision for the event, not that anyone will pay any attention, will include a military camp and a civilian "see what life was like at the court and towns" camp, which latter would naturally include me as James the 4ths alchemist, although I'd nip away to take part in the battle)



And the event then becomes a travellign craft fayre

was there a civilian set up at Flodden ? NO so theres no need for it at the reenactment

THINK DIFFERANTLY


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby guthrie » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:58 pm

No there wasn't, thats why I was wanting any such thing to be separate, but if you just want military only, we'll see what any sort of organisers want...

Maybe if we have a scots army travelling between the 3 castles and ending up at the battlefield? That could be entertaining.



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby guthrie » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:11 pm

Nigel wrote:I'll speak to Todd this is hais game and would be rude to go off on a tangent

You mean Tod is acting as point man on this and all suggestions etc should be directed to him?
WE'd need some gunners then.



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Tod » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:30 am

All I had was an idea :lol: I don't mind putting some thing together. I'm already trying to make contact with some groups people etc. I know that some of the people up in Scotland were in (respected by the mails I've had) group that has closed but did this period (you know who you are I think).
Another forum may be a good idea I'll look into that. Between all the other things I'm doing I will try with advice (from you lot!) put together firstly a soldier list. Rule 1 no wang. There are three years to sort this so we could do a very good job.
The way I'm thinking about this. Anniversary events. 100 - 400 years impressive. 600-900 years very impressive. 500 years or 1000 years rather fantastic.
This is 500 years and we will never have the opportunity again.



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Andy R » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:10 am

Hi Tod,

do the Irish Pickets have leather armour and spears in this period :devil:
(Sorry everyone, an old in joke for Tod and I)


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Tod » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:02 am

:roll: :lol: Only if they are from Norwich.
If you are at Basing this wek end pop over to the LH camp (walled garden) I'll be there during the day. Don't wear the snug trews. :sick:



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby steve stanley » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:27 am

Andy R wrote:Hi Tod,

do the Irish Pickets have leather armour and spears in this period :devil:
(Sorry everyone, an old in joke for Tod and I)



That brings back memories......... :D


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Snowshoes and axe and gun

Send me up in Grand River

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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Andy R » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:37 am

Tod wrote::roll: :lol: Only if they are from Norwich.
If you are at Basing this wek end pop over to the LH camp (walled garden) I'll be there during the day. Don't wear the snug trews. :sick:


Will be there, and will have the pony with me (Family as well)


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Jenn » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:56 pm

A couple of questions?
Has anyone been in touch with the people organising the commerations to ask if they'd like a re-enactment after the initial contact made i think last year? I know Allan was also making some noises has he done anything too?
Since if they don't want one then I can see some difficulties
Flodden was after all a battle and any re-enactment of it probably ought to be mostly about that (Sorry Guthrie) but if you are going to do for the public at all then you probably ought consider the fact it's unlikely you're going get 15,000 people on the field which what I think there were at the actual battle and therefore what else can you do to hold their interest?



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby guthrie » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:13 pm

I'm not that bothered, i've probably been thinking too much about LH stuff recently. the mainthing is to make sure thee landowners and local committees are in aagreement with having a bartttle re-enacttment.



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Nigel » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:48 am

Ia gree but lookign at their sites it looks as thought hat could be challenging

BUT I do have a plan B

I think a lot of us are busy this weekend but afterwards we can move this on


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Tod » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:37 am

Indeed, Nigel and I have communicated a lot.
There is a lot to do and a lot of questions to ask. As said above once the BH is over then we can do more and see who has done what, that includes talking to different re-enactment groups, and the organisations that so far are involved (or there is an indication of being). This isn't going to to be easy in the early stages and isn't helped by the web sites being either dead, over loaded or almost impossible to read. But maybe they are not aware of that.
Putting 15k of people on a field is never going to happen it can only be said it would be a representation of the original battle. As a SK member who try to do big battles with 1500 people I know it isn't realistic.
There is great opertunity to do some thing well and once the main objective is in site there are other posibilities for add ons to bring more to the event. Obviously as this is an open forum I am keeping some cards close to my chest and it is likely another more secure area will be set up where people can get information that will be accurate.



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Jenn » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:46 pm

That website is awful I know
I wasn't seriously suggesting 15K people on the field



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Neil Johnston » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:05 pm

A slight note of caution
Flodden is held in the memory of the Scottish Borders and it's people in a way that is not too dissimilar to the view of Culloden in the Highlands. Whether rightly or wrongly they could be touchy about the whole thing. Commemorations are one thing but recreations of the slaughter of thousands of Scots, although not an uncommon historical event, might not go down that well with the Scottish side of the Border. Other similar re-enactment events such as Prestonpans and Bannockburn were home wins after all.

Whilst I would jump at the chance to be involved in a re-enactment of the events of that year and would be prepared to organise kit specially I would be careful to include as many interested locals as possible in your plans....... as and when it is appropriate. It could be that they are all for it and that it will not even be an issue
Just a thought which knowing most of you guys, you are probably well aware of.
Cheers
Neil


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Jenn » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:35 pm

Exactly _ which is why it's worth checking that anyone wants you to do one first



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Nigel » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:28 pm

Neil given my mother is a Fenwick I kind of know all that :D

Jenn while we'll do everything we can to work alongside the existing committees I feel we would be foolish to not look at an opportunity of presenting our hobby in its best light at somethign as major as this and if they don't want to know well then its down to us as the meerkat say simples


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Jenn » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:39 pm

I am all for presenting our hobby in it's best light!
Believe me



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Nigel » Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:05 am

I know that BUT I also feel that sometimes we need to eb a bit more proactive

it would be sadd if we are alls at around in October 2013 going well we could have done something at least this way we are trying


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Neil Johnston » Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:25 pm

Of course Nigel,
I reckon you guys all know the situation well enough and are going about the whole thing the right way.
I agree that it would be a terrible shame if the anniversary passed by without even an attempt to do something memorable.
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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Andy R » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:32 am

Neil Johnston wrote:Bannockburn were home wins after all.Cheers
Neil



So Bannockburn 700th in 2014...... :thumbup:


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby Neil Johnston » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:22 pm

Looks like we might be going to be busy Andy,
Flodden 2013, Bannockburn 2014 and what with that wee Belgian event the year after plus rumours of Preston/Sherrifmuir towards the end of that year too.
Better start being nice to the wife now!! :D
Cheers
Neil


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Re: Flodden kit and info please

Postby John Waller » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:59 pm

Hi all,
The man to talk to is Clive Hallam-Baker who last year wrote :-

Re-enactment is certainly going to be an important part of the 500th anniversary commorations. As yet we have not publicised this topic as we have to sortout access etcwith the landowner and also work with English Heritage. Work on this is in fact starting in June 09 and any help or useful contact would be greatly appreciated. We will post further infformation on the News page. Watch this space!!

I'm still watching and not much seems to have happened! I'll try and have a word with Julian Humphreys who is the Battlefield Trust development officer who knows Clive and is well connected with EH - and lives near me - and see if he can have a word.

I have had a bit of a email conversation with Clive but not heard much for some time. I did try and impress on him the need to allow a considerable lead time to engage with groups and to allow preparations. Informal soundings and pms that I have had show that there are people who would support the venture. Scottish groups and people from the Fed, ECWS and others have shown interest. If EH were on board then how good would it be to showcase it at FOH and then move the whole circus up to the borders?


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