stuck for the next authentic thing for your camp!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
jelayemprins
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:43 pm
Location: The edge of reason
Contact:

stuck for the next authentic thing for your camp!

Postby jelayemprins » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:45 pm

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=36089

This source from the customs records of the port of London during the reign of Edward IV, gives a complete listing of every item imported. The list is vast, and may inspire someone or a group to try something a bit different!

vive le duc!
:)
jelayemprins



User avatar
chrisanson
Post Centurion
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:23 pm
Location: Dudley
Contact:

Postby chrisanson » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:16 pm

nice one, thanks
chris



User avatar
gregory23b
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:46 pm
Location: Gyppeswyk, Suffolk

Postby gregory23b » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:31 am

Good one Ian.

Seeing as how often this list gets mentioned, maybe the mods could put it as a resource sticky in this section.

I can't emphasise how useful this is from an overview of just one year of imports giving a good idea of just how much stuff was imported and in such quantities. This supplements local industry too, presumably there is a case for possible national difference in objects, which has been the way of trade for ever.

Along the same line, the Libel of English Polycie is a poem about keeping the Channel free of Flemish pirates and it basically lists the major trading nations and their primary goods which England benefitted from. Not sure if it is in print, but a library might have it.


middle english dictionary

Isabela on G23b "...somehow more approachable in real life"

http://medievalcolours.blogspot.com

"I know my place." Alice the Huswyf

User avatar
sally
Post Knight
Posts: 1806
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:31 pm
Location: Sunny Wales
Contact:

Postby sally » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:09 am

gregory23b wrote:
Along the same line, the Libel of English Polycie is a poem about keeping the Channel free of Flemish pirates and it basically lists the major trading nations and their primary goods which England benefitted from. Not sure if it is in print, but a library might have it.


Its a restricted site, but if your library has access...
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0013-8266(196104)76%3A299%3C193%3AT'OEP%3E2.0.CO%3B2-I




User avatar
gregory23b
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:46 pm
Location: Gyppeswyk, Suffolk

Postby gregory23b » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:58 am

I have a printed copy, courtesy of ebay, really good reading.

No, it will not be lent out. Copied blatantly, yes.


middle english dictionary

Isabela on G23b "...somehow more approachable in real life"

http://medievalcolours.blogspot.com

"I know my place." Alice the Huswyf


User avatar
gregory23b
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:46 pm
Location: Gyppeswyk, Suffolk

Postby gregory23b » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:46 pm

That's what all the girls say.


middle english dictionary

Isabela on G23b "...somehow more approachable in real life"

http://medievalcolours.blogspot.com

"I know my place." Alice the Huswyf

User avatar
Skevmeister
Post Centurion
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:10 pm
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Postby Skevmeister » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:47 pm

Stuck At The Top.

Skev


ad augusta per angusta

No Hamster's, Moderators, Animals, or Re-Enactors were harmed in the making of this post.

Skev keeping it real since '86

Apathy Ain't A Policy

User avatar
gregory23b
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:46 pm
Location: Gyppeswyk, Suffolk

Postby gregory23b » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:24 pm

Subject to Ian's permission, might it have more use and easy uptake if it was prelabelled, say Resource, then the subject, so in this case

Resource: London import lists 1480

that way as more resource threads get produced it is easy to scan them.

Not wanting to muscle your thread Ian, but the link is too useful to be lost.

Personally I would like to see a more coherent resourcing, per era as and when they come. We seem to get periodic requests for the same kind of things.

Oh, and thanks Skev.

:D


middle english dictionary

Isabela on G23b "...somehow more approachable in real life"

http://medievalcolours.blogspot.com

"I know my place." Alice the Huswyf

User avatar
jelayemprins
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:43 pm
Location: The edge of reason
Contact:

Resource: London import lists 1480

Postby jelayemprins » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:31 pm

Master Kelman.

Of course I don't mind. I haven't had the luxury of being on the forum so long

Ever fancied having a go at preparing parchment/vellum? from the start?
let me know. I have something coming up that might need a 'parchmentmakyr'

....



User avatar
gregory23b
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:46 pm
Location: Gyppeswyk, Suffolk

Postby gregory23b » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:41 pm

Well you as the thread starter need to edit the title.

No I haven't re the parchment, but it is someting I have been tempted to try once, but in all seriousness it is a specialist job as you know, also more so if you mean doing it from a whole fresh skin, depilating it, soaking it etc, you need about a week or two before setting up the frame to do the scraping. Have you thought about hiring a man from Cowleys to show you, never know he might do it in kit?


middle english dictionary

Isabela on G23b "...somehow more approachable in real life"

http://medievalcolours.blogspot.com

"I know my place." Alice the Huswyf

User avatar
jelayemprins
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:43 pm
Location: The edge of reason
Contact:

Resources

Postby jelayemprins » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:54 pm

Any one care to enlighten me as to the likely form of cotton russet?
As LH persons we'va all been telling the public for years that 'they had linen, wool and errrr, thats about it. So whats all this being exported then??

William Scapehuson, H, 2 bales with 43 cloths w.g.; 82 goads cotton russet, 53s.4d.
John Questynburgh, H, 1 bale with 18 cloths w.g.; 83 goads cotton russet, 56s.8d.
Tylman Barkys, H, 1 bale with 18 cloths w.g.; 41 goads cotton russet, 26s.8d.
Peter Syber, H, 1 bale with 10 cloths w.g.; 160 goads cotton russet, £5 6s.8d.
Roger van Feld, H, 1 bale with 23 cloths 16 yds. w.g., 1½ cloths in grain; 40 goads cotton russet, 26s.8d.

From: 'Petty Custom Account 1480-1: Exports: Sept 1481 (nos 565-597)', The overseas trade of London: exchequer customs accounts: 1480-1 (1990), pp. 144-64. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=36085. Date accessed: 17 January 2007.



User avatar
sally
Post Knight
Posts: 1806
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:31 pm
Location: Sunny Wales
Contact:

Postby sally » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:29 am

Whether it is in this case or not, I do know that cottonning is a process applied to wool at that time, its a way of brushing it I think. Sometimes references to cotton just mean wool that has had this done to it, but one of the more knowledgeable cloth people should be able to confirm or correct that.



User avatar
fullplate
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:51 pm
Location: s. yorkshire

Postby fullplate » Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:27 pm

cotton had been traded from egypt through out the roman empire and before that to the greeks, does anyone think that with a few crusades having taken place noone would have thought to bring it back and maybe even trade in it ? just a point to ponder on for all those who have the wool was the only material in the middle ages mind set. oh and just as an after thought what happend to the bamboo canes that the monks smuggled silkworms in, in the 10 century to france ? ah well thats my credability gone.



User avatar
gregory23b
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:46 pm
Location: Gyppeswyk, Suffolk

Postby gregory23b » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:24 pm

Fullplate,

cotton was indeed imported into England, but it does not seem to be used as a cloth, but as unspun stuffing. In the later middle ages there is a reference to cotton being part of woolen fustian.

Just because there is a product in one country does not automatically mean it is traded. Consider that cotton is a hot country crop, consider that linen (flax, hemp or nettle) is not, what is likely to be a national commodity? one that is grown here or one that is imported? Protectionism of trade was a major deal in the middle ages, not to mention convenience.

Cotton didn't really become dominant in england for a long time after the middle ages.


middle english dictionary

Isabela on G23b "...somehow more approachable in real life"

http://medievalcolours.blogspot.com

"I know my place." Alice the Huswyf

User avatar
jelayemprins
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:43 pm
Location: The edge of reason
Contact:

cotton

Postby jelayemprins » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:19 pm

Thanks G23b, Sally, Fullplate

Still doesn't really explain if it was woven cotton fabric being exported?

Or as Sally says, cottoning was a finish?

Oh & JK, your excellent dictionary doesn't have goads....

jelayemp.



User avatar
gregory23b
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:46 pm
Location: Gyppeswyk, Suffolk

Postby gregory23b » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:00 pm

There is a village called Cotton in our region Mr P, hey can we call you P-Daddy now?

"Still doesn't really explain if it was woven cotton fabric being exported? "

well it does, ie its presence is somewhat lacking as a cloth in England, as for exported out?

And cottoning was indeed a finish, nap raising apparently, maybe to make it soft and fluffy like cotton (wool).


middle english dictionary

Isabela on G23b "...somehow more approachable in real life"

http://medievalcolours.blogspot.com

"I know my place." Alice the Huswyf

User avatar
Colin Middleton
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2037
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:31 pm
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Postby Colin Middleton » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:33 pm

I'd understood Russet to be a type or quality of woollen cloth, so we could be specifically talking about a woolen cloth with at 'cottoned' knap. That would make sense to me.

Colin



Mark Griffin
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 4240
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:28 pm
Location: Wales. Only just!
Contact:

Postby Mark Griffin » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:10 pm

Gregory is right. Just because one country has a resource does not mean to say it gets everywhere else. I look forward to seeing olives turning up in the lists for example.

Steels himself for nasty surprise......

There is plenty of raw cotton about as use as padding in garments and furnishings etc but it's my understanding that even if it was available as a cloth, there would be no way the linen weaver guids would have let it anywhere near their markets.


http://www.griffinhistorical.com. A delicious decadent historical trifle. Thick performance jelly topped with lashings of imaginative creamy custard. You may also get a soggy event management sponge finger but it won't cost you hundreds and thousands.

User avatar
jelayemprins
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:43 pm
Location: The edge of reason
Contact:

olives

Postby jelayemprins » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:34 am

Petty Custom Account 1480-1: Imports: Jan - Mar 1481 (nos 56-108) ...
... scouring stones, (fn. 3) £3 6s.8d. Lambert Rotard, H, 13½ brls. sturgeon, ½
[S 1½] brl. olives, £11 10s. 69. 17 Feb. From the ship ...
The overseas trade of London: exchequer customs accounts (1990)


as requested!
xx



Mark Griffin
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 4240
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:28 pm
Location: Wales. Only just!
Contact:

Postby Mark Griffin » Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:04 am

Thanks goodness for that. Gives me an excuse when we do the New Inn at Peasenhall in a month or so to have lots of bowls of my favourite snack food.


http://www.griffinhistorical.com. A delicious decadent historical trifle. Thick performance jelly topped with lashings of imaginative creamy custard. You may also get a soggy event management sponge finger but it won't cost you hundreds and thousands.

User avatar
Tuppence
Post Knight
Posts: 1397
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: chaos-world, west yorks
Contact:

Postby Tuppence » Sun May 13, 2007 3:49 am

russett was a type of fabric long before it was a colour.

and there was a fabric finishing process known as cottoning (I'm not certain what it involved or what the effect produced was).

as others have said, cotton was undoubtedly know in britain, but it was generally used as a raw un spun material in medieval times - stuffing for padded garments and furniture.

examples - there is mention of cotton wool being used as one of the materials involved in making padded items in the accounts of the black prince - on examining his 'coat armour' at canterbury, janet arnold determined that it is 'stuffed' (actually quilted) with raw cotton - there is a lovely illustration in a book on world travel (more fantasy than actual travel), of a cotton tree - and a description of the cotton tree (paraphrasing obv, as don't have it in front of me) says that little sheep live on the ends of the boughs, and when their coats get very thick, they become too heavy for the branches. the branches sink to the ground, allowing the cotton wool to be harvested, and then the branches spring back up, allowing the sheep's coats to grow once more.


sorry - useless info - can't sleep.


"What a lovely hat! But may I make one teensy suggestion? If it blows off, don't chase it."
Miss Piggy
RIP Edward the avatar cat.

User avatar
House of De Clifford
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:35 pm
Location: Generally on a motorway in the van!!!!
Contact:

Postby House of De Clifford » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:27 pm

Awwww Debs,

I love that analogy, just found my way to this forum today and exploring...

I love the idea of sheep growing on trees, and being kind enough to get fat and reach the floor when they are cooked and ready......it would make my stock runs so much easier,................. especially here in Wales!!!! :lol:

Miranda x


House of De Clifford
Suppliers of ethical fur and hides to Re- enactment, Film, Tv and Theatre.
http://www.houseofdeclifford.co.uk


Return to “1100-1500”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests