Battle of Bannockburn 2007

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Battle of Bannockburn 2007

Postby NTS » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:09 pm

The National Trust for Scotland (NTS) is delighted to announce the dates for The Battle of Bannockburn 2007. The re-enactment will be taking place on the anniversary of the battle - Saturday 23rd and Sunday 24th of June.

We hope you'll be able to come along and we're looking forward to working with you to make next year's battle the best event possible.

More details will follow in due course, but if you'd like more information in the meantime, please email battleofbannockburn@nts.org.uk



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Postby Alan_F » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:12 pm

Who's organising it?


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Postby the real lord duvet » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:26 pm

It clashes with something south of the border.



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Postby Ayliffe's Steve » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:30 pm

Does this clash with next year's Twinwood?

Does it also clash with the 'Annual Bannockburn march and rally' organised by the Scottish Nationalish Party?

http://www.snp.org/homepagelatest/event/eventlatestbannockburn


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Postby zauberdachs » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:06 pm

If this is real then at least they are letting everyone know way in advance :)

I've emailed them for more details.

What would be a good date in June which doesn't clash with other events? If we catch them now perhaps it could be changed.


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Postby david smith » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:23 pm

It'll certainly clash with something - either Twinwood (or replacement) or Loseley.

If it happens...

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Postby zauberdachs » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:26 pm

having looked into it I've come up with a couple of points.

Firstly battleofbannockburn@nts.org.uk isn't a real email address.

Secondly there is nothing on the NTS website about this.


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Postby Neil of Ormsheim » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:26 pm

Whilst not wishing to sound sceptical, after the problems this year I will, personally, need a lot of convincing before I make the 11 hour round-trip from the "North of England".

Before I can think about commiting myself, I want to know: -

Who will be organising/running the Scots and English armies.
Who will be writing the battle script.
Who will be responsible for authenticity.
Who will be responsible for weapons and armour safety checks.
Which groups have been invited to participate - if certain anachronistic groups are going, I wont be.
What is the position as regards traders.
Will there be any money to help with the costs of getting there.

If I think of any others, I will add them later.


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Postby PaulMurphy » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:12 pm

zauberdachs wrote:What would be a good date in June which doesn't clash with other events? If we catch them now perhaps it could be changed.


There is no such thing as a weekend in May, June, July or August which does not clash with something.

Any event which wants to run over the summer has to accept that there will be clashes, and hope to provide a stronger draw than the competing event. If the competition is 300 miles away and a WotR event, that is less of a problem than, say, a 1296 event 50 miles away.

At least by announcing the date a year in advance, they are showing some signs of having discovered reality - attempting to change it now would be a sure sign that they are incapable of planning in depth and considering the consequences of their decision.

The key questions which have to be answered quickly are those which Neil has posed above, and also whether the SNP march is on the same day, plus the usual one of what budget they have to assist with expenses.

Best wishes,

Paul.


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Postby NTS » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:24 pm

Noone was more disappointed about the cancellation of this year's event than me - but it happened and now want to move on and focus on next year's event.
Hopefully I can clear up a few of your concerns. The battle of bannockburn will not clash with the SNP Rally as I have already informed them of the date of next year's event and have said that they will have to reorganise their event to avoid conflicting with our event. I had a meeting with the SNP and they have agreed to this. I have also followed this up with a letter confirming this information.

My apologies The email address should be read battleofbannockburn@nts.org.uk. I have especially created and dedicated to next year and future year's event.

I have been planning next year's event with a scottish re-enactment group who have over twenty year's experience but ultimate responsibilty will lie with me as the property manager.

I am very keen that next year's event is accurate, educational and entertaining and I am sure you will agree that one does not need to come at the expense of the other. I am currently working on a kit guide.

We also plan to have a dedicated shiltrom regiment (spears will be provided) and would be interested to hear from anyone who might interested in joining the regiment.

As far as expenses go the trust as charity has to keep costs to minimum but am willing to discuss a contribution towards travelling costs.

Groups who wish to participate will have to have insurance.

I hope this answers some of the questions you may have.



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Postby PaulMurphy » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:42 pm

Good answers, and quick too - things are looking up.

Two further questions for you, please:

1. Could you say who you are? While a name isn't necessary, its better than discussing the event with a faceless someone who remains anonymous.

2. On the insurance, can I ask that you read the discussions on here concerning insurance for multi-group events, and specifically my write-up at http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3289&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=46 - if you then decide that having each group provide insurance is still the best approach, fair enough, but I see this as taking a gamble. If one uninsured person gets on the field and has an accident which injures a member of the public, the NTS will be liable.

Best Wishes,

Paul.


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Postby Dickie » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:08 pm

NTS wrote:I have been planning next year's event with a scottish re-enactment group who have over twenty year's experience but ultimate responsibilty will lie with me as the property manager.


Who..?


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Postby zauberdachs » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:47 pm

Dickie wrote:Who..?


Indeed, if it was someone from LH they would probably have said something... who does that leave?


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Postby NTS » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:14 pm

My name is Alison Corley and I am the property manager for Bannockburn. The people writing the scripts etc will be Robert Ballantyne and Michael Newcomen.

Paul thanks for the information and I will certainly look at the information and balance it with the trust's insurance requirements.

Thanks again,

Alison



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Postby Alan_F » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:18 pm

NTS wrote:I am very keen that next year's event is accurate, educational and entertaining and I am sure you will agree that one does not need to come at the expense of the other. I am currently working on a kit guide.


There's an excellent kit guide on the Gaddgedlar website at http://www.gaddgedlar.com

We also plan to have a dedicated shiltrom regiment (spears will be provided) and would be interested to hear from anyone who might interested in joining the regiment.


This is something that already exists, namely in the form of Gaddgedlar and Medieval Realm, two groups that specialise in performing as a schiltron, although I haven't heard of a schiltron regiment before. Can I ask who the group you have been working with is?


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Postby Ayliffe's Steve » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:15 am

There were some points raised over the past events that the kit guide was not being enforced and kit was allowed onto the field that was in direct contradiction with what was requested.

Will this be addressed?

Last year we have had trouble with aggressive MOPs who seem to believe that we are actually re-fighting the battle of Bannockburn.

Bearing this in mind will there be 24 hour security?

Robert Ballantyne and Michael Newcomen.


Which group are they from?
*points to newbie hat that he is wearing*


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Postby Ian Macintyre » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:57 am

Good luck sir.

I imagine that my group, the Company of Dawn Duellists, shall attend as we are based in Edinburgh and have attended all of the recent recreations.

You will get a lot of questions from people over the next few days and weeks. Please be patient.

The reason is that sadly despite no doubt being finacially successful for the NTS previous re-enactments, at least from the re-enactors perspective have been plagued by problems. Partly due to bad luck with weather and so forth but also partly broken promices, lack of planning or bad planning by previous organisers. Assuaging these fears will sadly prove difficult until the event itself takes place. Hopefully it will be such a success that they will simply disapear.

Transparency, sticking to your guns and a lot of tolerance on your part will probably be required and I don't envy you your task.

But please remember the reason we are all a bit tetchy is we care so much that this is done right.

The last bit of advise I can give is that if at all possible you pop along to the Re-enactment at Lanark in August. It was quite successful from our point of view last year and you may be able to pick up some info and of course say hello to some of the groups.


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Postby Nigel » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:04 pm

NTS wrote:I have been planning next year's event with a scottish re-enactment group who have over twenty year's experience .


Again to echo Dickie who please ?


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Postby PaulMurphy » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:29 pm

After some detective work:

http://www.nts.org.uk/web/site/home/press/Bannockburn_alive.asp?NavID=2012&NavPage=472&

Note that this is an old press release, but gives details of one of the people involved.

Their web page:
http://www.newcomen.freeserve.co.uk/

"Scotland's leading living history company" - I assume the key word here is "company", rather than "society".

Their experience of running large events in the past isn't stated - perhaps they'd like to join this forum and help with answering some of the questions?

Paul.


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Postby Nigel » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:39 pm

well the 1745 stuff looks a bit weird

Anybody know who theya re ?


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Postby Alan_F » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:53 pm

Nigel wrote:well the 1745 stuff looks a bit weird

Anybody know who theya re ?


Mike Newcomen is a rather nice bloke who used to run the White Cockade, not sure who Robert Ballantyne is although I assume he's one of Mike's guys.

Alsion, to echo the comments made here, can I recommend that you come along to the event in Lanark and meet some of us? 8)


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Bannockburn

Postby Ian Deveney » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:31 pm

I know who they are, when Bannockburn was first organised Mike was asked if he would like to help organise it, he decline the offer as he had no confidence that it would work. it looks like he can see an opportunity here. The event now has a following so it looks to me like he thinks it will be easy.
I must say i am disappointed after working with the re-enactors over the last few years on Bannockburn and gathering experience, the trust have opted to go with a company that has not been involved since the re-enactment began.


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Postby Neil of Ormsheim » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:00 pm

Hmmm, still a tad unconvinced. How much experience does the Alba Adventure Company have at organising battles with, hopefully, more than a hundred combatants from different societies and different time periods? According to their blurb from Pauls' link, the biggest group they have worked with is 22 - and all their own people.

It would be helpful if someone from Alba Adventure Company joined the discussion to ally the fears of those of us who have been and seen Bannockburn before.


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Postby jim-m » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:11 pm

Tears before bedtime again methinks.......



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Postby NTS » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:17 pm

Thanks for all the comments. I apologise before I start this may be a bit long winded but hope it will explain things further.

I completely understand why people are concerned about next year's event and am happy to answer any questions you have.

I am planning to visit lanark and as many other events as I can. So

Could I also say without rehashing the past , yes, mistakes have been made and intend to do my best to rectify these this year and would appreciate any feedback on how you as the participants feel we could improve the event.



The reason I am taking more control this year is that with all respect and thanks to the reenactors involved in the organisational side in the past there has been a missing link and misinformation has been circulated. With final responsibilty being with me I hope to alleviate as much of this as I can.


With regards to Mike's past involvment reenactment he was more than happy to help at short notice on my behalf.

As Ian Devaney has worked for Mike in the past and with Robert (who is very much into this period) in the past I am sure he will be able to comment on their professionalism.


thanks,

Alison



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Postby Alan_F » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:24 pm

NTS wrote:Could I also say without rehashing the past , yes, mistakes have been made and intend to do my best to rectify these this year and would appreciate any feedback on how you as the participants feel we could improve the event.


Alison, something that would improve things and encourage more people would be an enforcing of the 'No tartan' rule for re-enactors. As someone who has done all but one of the Bannockburn events, I know that a lot of people are put off by the crowd of people who turn up clad a la Braveheart. Would it be possible for this rule to be enforced?


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Bannockburn

Postby Ian Deveney » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:37 pm

Just Spoke to Mike Newcomen and he assure me he will only be doing the commentary on the day.
As for the writing of the script it look like it will be Robert Ballantyne.


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Postby NTS » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:43 pm

Alan,

As far as the tartan rule goes I am going to make every effort to enforce the no tartan but could I ask you and the reenactors to help me with this?

thanks

Alison



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Postby oakenshield » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:06 pm

cant wait to join in this will i bring my own blue face paint or will it be provided ? :D
Last edited by oakenshield on Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Postby guthrie » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:17 pm

oakenshield wrote:cant wait to join in this will i bring my own blue face paint or will it be provided ?

Thats a bit over the top given the tone of the thread so far.

Edited to add:
Unless your being funny, in which case a smilie would have been helpful.
Last edited by guthrie on Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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