Battle of Bannockburn 2007

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Tuppence
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Post by Tuppence »

absolutely you would.

you have to have enough security so that traders feel they can go to the beer tent or to get food, or to go off site while the event is shut (i.e. while no mops are in), without having to worry about whether their stock is still gonna be there when they get back.

I'd say daytime security is less of an issue - the trader should be ok looking after their stuff during the day - but there has to be enough of a presence so that if something did kick off there'd be somebody to turn to.

as an awful lot of traders only sell to re-enactors, you also have to be able to guarantee (weather and unforeseen stuff to one side for the time being - you deal with that as we ill at tewkesb) that there are at least a decent number of re-enators to be potential customers.

it doesn't guarantee you'll get anything, or even cover costs, but it's a guarantee of the potential for that that I'd be looking for.

as nige said, I often don't have to trade to pick up orders. in fact I got two orders at an ecws event a while back that I didn't even go to :shock:

I don't actually trade that often, (3 - 4 times a year, and then only if I want to) and therefore am not a typical trader, so you may get a different answer from them.
I'm also lucky enough to already have a few market organisers pestering me to trade with them (some of them I really do want to as well, but am just so busy (alex & morgan :D ))

but what I look for is:

- good security, and an absolute gurantee that the site is competely secure, especially during the off hours.
that's a complete deal breaker. inadequate security and I ain't trading (different rules apply to me as trader than to me as re-enactor).

- a guarantee of a reasonable number of re-enactors in attendance, from a variety of groups
in terms of numbers I'd be looking for a minimum of a good few hundred - maybe four or five? (re-enactors in total, not just field goers).
don't need a guarantee of getting any work - that's my job, and the risk you take by being self employed.

- reasonable pitch fee, that's in line with other events of similar size in the country (meaning britain, not just scotland). or perhaps a tithe, like at tewkers (you pay a minimum, then a percentage of takings).

- I'd also have to have confidence from communication that the organisers would be able and willing to help if something horrible did happen.
refused one major show flat cos I had no confidence in the organisers at all after their inadequate responses to several e-mails.

- I'd need a confirmed booking no later than (assuming event in june) roughly feb.

- although not essential, it helps if I know I can get stuff like food on site, and if there's somewhere to socialise, like a beer tent, so I don't have to leave the stall too long. flexibility about sleeping arrangements is good too. we normally sleep in the stall if trading in a tent, and martin tends to sleep in the van at tewkes.
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Post by Alan_F »

So what we need is:

Advance warning of when the event is - at least 12 months in advance.

Improved Security

A beer tent

Better publicity

And to add one other I thought of, how about changing the date to when the school holidays are on in Scotland?
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Post by Lady Wolfshead »

In order to prevent Alison or NTS receiving several emails with the same points, can we organise ourselves to give a united response to NTS/Alison?

I think we will get a much better response if we take the time to put our points into a single document/letter to them.

:)

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Post by Alan_F »

Seems like a good idea to me, who's to write it?
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Post by Tuppence »

oh if only I had the time.... :lol:

who ever does is free to use any of the stuff I've put above though

thing is as well, shows that get a reputation for having a good market and good crack in the beer tent tend to get re-enactors wanting to turn up.
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Post by Colin MacDonald »

Well, step #1 is for Alison to decide if there are going to be any further events, and on what scale. There's absolutely no reason why a large scale Bannockburn can't be a success, but the clock is already ticking on 2008.

Incidentally, does anyone have pictures of this year's event?

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Post by guthrie »

The thing is, I am not sure if it is Alison who makes the decision as to whether it is on next year or not.

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Post by zauberdachs »

Honestly I think they'll have their work cut out rebuilding the duff Bannockburn centre.

Perhaps it might improve things if someone offered to take the event off their hands?
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Post by Lady Wolfshead »

Sorry, should have said that I am a) happy to put together the report and b) happy to liase with Alison (NTS) about next year's event.

I think before we offer to take it off their hands we ought to find out what they want to do. Bit rude otherwise.

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Post by zauberdachs »

Um... if someone did want to run it then they should tell the NTS so they can consider it as an option on their list of potential "things they might do with it."

Nowt rude in giving them options is there?
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Post by Colin MacDonald »

Indeed, but I'd expect that anyone who's minded to tender for running it will already have done so, without announcing it to the world.

Wait: surely you didn't mean free and gratis? The horror!

Actually, the consensus seems to be that Robert and Alison made a good fist of running things on the day (congratulations!), so they don't really need to do that much, just address a few issues, i.e.:

* On site après.
* 24 hour security.
* Get it announced now, and take bookings early (so that they can attract traders with participants, and vice versa).

A copy of Call To Arms and a couple of hours of emailing or phoning should see them right for inviting groups and traders.

That's assuming that they actually want to put themselves through the grinder again, but they've already done the hard part and showed that Bannockburn can be run properly on the day, so it should get easier from now, if they want to stick with it.

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Post by zauberdachs »

Colin MacDonald wrote:Wait: surely you didn't mean free and gratis? The horror!
:lol: Certainly not, though I imagine some people would probably volunteer for this thankless task.
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Post by Lady Wolfshead »

Colin MacDonald wrote: Actually, the consensus seems to be that Robert and Alison made a good fist of running things on the day (congratulations!), so they don't really need to do that much, just address a few issues,
That was sort of my point, they did a good job so offering to take it off their hands might look a bit ungrateful. :)

I also figured that if we gave them a document with suggestions for next year, this gives them all the information in an easy format rather than a series of emails from different sources which they then need to pick through to get the salient points. :)

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Post by RottenCad »

Rightho, I'd shove my oar in again.

Two suggestions I've not seen posited on the thread yet.

1) Commanders Meeting to take the form of a full walk-through with outline script. It worked very well in 2005, and I see no reason not to do it again; after all, it costs precisely nowt!

2) Two battles each day. Methven and Berkeley were exceedingly cool events, largely (from my POV) because we got to have two fights. The structure of the Bannockburn event is ideal for this, seeing as it took place on two days! More fights = happy warriors, and entertained MoPs.

Thoughts?

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Post by Alan_F »

Why offer to take things off their hands, why not offer to help out with the event? I'm happy to do so.
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Post by Lady Wolfshead »

RottenCad wrote:1) Commanders Meeting to take the form of a full walk-through with outline script. It worked very well in 2005, and I see no reason not to do it again; after all, it costs precisely nowt!

2) Two battles each day. Methven and Berkeley were exceedingly cool events, largely (from my POV) because we got to have two fights. The structure of the Bannockburn event is ideal for this, seeing as it took place on two days! More fights = happy warriors, and entertained MoPs.
I think a formal Commanders meeting would be a good idea and if a walk-through has worked before then it seems reasonable to do it again.

Two battles would certainly get my vote and might help entice people to travel the distance more. Tintagel has two battles a day and that seems to work well. Also, it's a long day for MOPs if they have to wait till 4pm for the battle.
Why offer to take things off their hands, why not offer to help out with the event? I'm happy to do so.
That's what I'm happy to do too. I did informally offer help last year though and wasn't taken up on it by NTS which is why I think going to them with our key points would be a better approach. :)

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Post by Tuppence »

1) Commanders Meeting to take the form of a full walk-through with outline script. It worked very well in 2005, and I see no reason not to do it again; after all, it costs precisely nowt!
v.g. idea.

is the norm at stuff like hastings, and comes in very handy.

when the bbeb don't try to get involved, though that did add comedy value :D
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Post by Alan_F »

What about changing the dates? There's not much on there for the rest of the year and a later or earlier date might get both more MOPs and re-enactors. The weekend after Bannockburn is the start of the Scottish school holidays, so how about then or later in July?
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Post by Alan_F »

Lady Wolfshead wrote:
Why offer to take things off their hands, why not offer to help out with the event? I'm happy to do so.
That's what I'm happy to do too. I did informally offer help last year though and wasn't taken up on it by NTS which is why I think going to them with our key points would be a better approach. :)
Could we make up a list of those of us willing to help out and send that to them with contact details?
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Post by Lady Wolfshead »

Alan_F wrote:What about changing the dates? There's not much on there for the rest of the year and a later or earlier date might get both more MOPs and re-enactors. The weekend after Bannockburn is the start of the Scottish school holidays, so how about then or later in July?
Certainly worth proposing but I'd understand if they were reluctant to do this given that it has already changed once and May is the only month where there is less conflict with other re-enactments and a fair chance of decent weather.

On the subject of dates though I think it would be good to try and get confirmation of next year's date by Lanark so we can publicise it to re-enactment groups who have already made the effort to come to Scotland.
Could we make up a list of those of us willing to help out and send that to them with contact details?
That should be possible to attach to any correspondence we have with NTS, assuming everyone is happy with that.

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Post by zauberdachs »

:lol: good luck with this.

If anyone wants to see the virtually identical chat from last time round:

http://livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewt ... kburn+2006
Last edited by zauberdachs on Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Nigel »

Hate to say this but May is already a manic month for msot groups
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Post by Fox »

Nigel wrote:Hate to say this but May is already a manic month for msot groups
Not sure it is. It might be for you. It's less busy than June, July or August.

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Post by guthrie »

Up here it isn't. I quite like the idea of moving it to when the school holidays start, except for the small problem of Tewkesbury.

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Post by Tuppence »

The weekend after Bannockburn is the start of the Scottish school holidays, so how about then or later in July?
July is a manically busy month already, so probably best avoided.
Not sure it is. It might be for you. It's less busy than June, July or August.
May is far busier than june for all the groups I'm involved with - there are two bank holidays - unless purposely planning otherwise for some reason every group's busy on a bank holiday or they're doing something really wrong....
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Post by Lady Wolfshead »

zauberdachs wrote::lol: good luck with this.

If anyone wants to see the virtually identical chat from last time round:

http://livinghistory.co.uk/forums/posti ... ply&t=4033
Don't seem to be able to access this, however I'm a firm believer in "if at first you don't succeed ..." so would still like to try.

I'm going to start putting the points made into a document, I'll then post it on here (middle next week) for people to comment on and we can take it from there. Feel free to either PM me or post any additional points you don't feel have been made already.

LW :)
(NB. We will need to act fast if we are going to give people as much warning as possible and make the best use of advertising at Lanark.)

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Post by guthrie »

I'm beggining to think that what we need to do about this numbers thing is recruit 200 Scots to medieval re-enacting. It would be worth a try...

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Post by zauberdachs »

Lady Wolfshead wrote:
zauberdachs wrote::lol: good luck with this.

If anyone wants to see the virtually identical chat from last time round:

http://livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewt ... kburn+2006
Don't seem to be able to access this, however I'm a firm believer in "if at first you don't succeed ..." so would still like to try.
Have changed it... having a very bad today in general...

Don't think there is any harm in trying as NTS have certainly picked up on some stuff in the past.
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Post by Lady Wolfshead »

Thanks, I'll read through the information and see what I can glean for our new proposal.

Hope your day improves! :)

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Post by gregory23b »

How long does the bannockburn event last?

if it was over say four days, as a festival type thing that might be attractive, not just in terms of trading but the event itself.

Am sorely tempted to get some 14thc kit, what are teh key differences between early 14tch and mid 14thc?
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