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Sergeant Kit 1260s.... Critique please

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:09 pm
by IDEEDEE
Trying to put together kit for Battle of Lewes in May, but not my period.. Had to cobble something together for a quick photoshoot (pic) for the Baron's army. Apart from the obvious (hose too loose, shield too small, spear too long, sword-belt too tight, coif not up, too fat and the fact that I'm not too sure about the kettle) any real howlers...? All contributions gratefully received.....

Re: Sergeant Kit 1260s.... Critique please

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:11 pm
by Biro
Damn fine effort, I'd say.

My only comment (which I'm not totally sure of tbh) is the bits of heraldry you have.. I would have avoided any kind of 'charge' worn on the chest (they weren't massively common on the knights at that point) and just stuck with a field.

btw, Good luck with Lewes.. Shame we couldn't make it.

Re: Sergeant Kit 1260s.... Critique please

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:52 pm
by IDEEDEE
Cheers Biro.. Your opinion much respected (been looking at your page on working out how a Morgan Bible ventail works recently. Really interesting...).

Yeah, I agree re the heraldry... Would have preferred without, but the white cross on the chest (deliberately ragged/makeshift & crudely sewn on) and the splashed-on/whitewashed cross on the shield are to represent De Montford's "order of the day" that the Barons' army at Lewes was to sport a white cross*.

(*to "aid recognition/represent their moral ascendancy" my backside.... To stop folk changing sides part way through the battle I reckon :wink: ).

The White Mullet was added to the shield as an afterthought, as the "splashed-on" white cross alone looked a bit too "Swiss"/odd - and since our group is going as the de Vere retinue that seemed a "reasonable" addition (though a "livery mark" is presumably an anachronism for a C13th household ?).

We'll see how Lewes goes. You would have been really welcome....... The reenactment is just a small part of the "festival" - http://sussexpast.co.uk/battle-of-lewes-main/battle-of-lewes-750-may-2014 If a success it would be nice to make it a "regular fixture"...

Thanks again for the response...

Re: Sergeant Kit 1260s.... Critique please

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:49 am
by Biro
Ahh, makes sense with the cross now..

With the shield, its difficult to say really.. You don't often see (obviously non-knighlty) infantry with shields in period imagiary for that timeframe - and the few I have seen have sometimes had some decoration but I don't recall seeing any heraldic devices - for that reason we tend to keep ours along the lines of just single flat colours - or halved.

You mentioned helmets too.. Yours seems pretty close in shape to some seen in the Douce Apocalypse. Generally, it seems hard to find kettle-hats that are good replicas of the 13c manuscripts (same goes with great helms too). So without commissioning something specifically for it, yours is probably about as good as it gets.

Re: Sergeant Kit 1260s.... Critique please

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:20 pm
by IDEEDEE
Yes, I agree with the shields thing... I posted a query re that last year, 'cos I was having just that problem - sourcing contemporary images of non-knightly infantry shields for this period.....

Blank would have been better IMHO, but we ran up against de Montfort's battle badge order and the fact that the old shields we had in store were already red (and I've done the Mullet story... Maybe we are a bit over-sensitive about looking Swiss - when late 15th/early 16thC we are usually landsknechts, so "Swiss" - hawk spit... :wink: ).

Thanks for the comment on the helmet. I had found a couple of "nearly right" images, so felt it was just passable - and prefer that helm to my nasal/felt that a bowl & coif "felt wrong" without cap a pie maille & a surcoat..

Again. many thanks for your input..

Re: Sergeant Kit 1260s.... Critique please

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 5:47 pm
by Dingo8MyBaby
Biro wrote: it seems hard to find kettle-hats that are good replicas of the 13c manuscripts (same goes with great helms too). So without commissioning something specifically for it, .


You need to go to the French / German or Polish armourers - the period had a stronger following there and so more of tem make arms and armour for it.