Page 1 of 1

Baldachin awnings - evidence?

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:53 pm
by Anthony of the MSS
Has anyone seen any evidence for this sort of awning? ... baldachin/

A baldachin to me is something different, that’s an indoor canopy above a throne or similar.

I’ve had a look at the larsdatter site, and other sources and whilst I have seen something similar in images of setting the camp up I think these are smaller pavilions with the walls off during pack down.


Re: Baldachin awnings - evidence?

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:41 pm
by Brother Ranulf
In these kinds of issues my first thought is always language - which one is the word from and what is its meaning?

The Anglo-Norman French word baldekin/baudequin/baudkin (spelling varies considerably, as usual in this language) is glossed as "a piece of brocade material, a canopy, something made of rich material". So for example the Bedford Inventories of about 1400 speak of "une chappe de baudequin noir" (a cloak/chape of black baldekin; a chronicle of about 1390 mentions "une baudekyn de drape d’ore sour quater bastounes " (a canopy of gold cloth on four wooden posts).

Cloth of gold on four supports sounds like it ought to be a canopy - but an outdoor one, not in a throne room - although no doubt the same word signified an indoor version as well. I imagine that John would have sat uncomfortably under exactly that kind of shade while waiting for all 18 or so copies of Magna Carta to be written out.

None of the linguistic evidence points to a "tent without walls".

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:19 pm
by Anthony of the MSS
I'm going to be charitable and assume the vendor has come up with the best word to describe the item as opposed to a direct parallel from text. Is there any evidence for such an awning however?

Re: Baldachin awnings - evidence?

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm
by guthrie
I've never seen anything like that in a picture anywhere. I've been looking out for dining shelter type designs, and seen nothing like that.

What I have found is a mention of canvas, I think 60 ells of it, for making a kitchen for the king before he went off fighting. For James IV, can't remember if it is 1490's or 1510's accounts of the treasurer. Of course you could use it to make such a shelter, but I don't see any evidence for it. Unfortunately there was no mention of rope or poles for the kitchen shelter thing.

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:38 pm
by Anthony of the MSS
Hi Guthrie - yes, I'm looking for a dining shelter too, trying to do the research before I buy!!

Re: Baldachin awnings - evidence?

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:13 am
by guthrie
By such a shelter I meant the Baldachin thingy; I suspect the James IV kitchen was similar to the traditional cooking shelter design - a big rectangle with some side poles holding it up.

Re: Baldachin awnings - evidence?

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:26 pm
by latheaxe
Could be worth you looking here??

Re: Baldachin awnings - evidence?

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:17 pm
by Colin Middleton
When I was looking into shelters, they all seemed to be made of a rectangle of canvas, either with poles just at the corners, or a ride pole, supports and possibly corner poles to keep them down/up.

That style looks much later to me.