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Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:50 pm
by zauberdachs
I'm curious, is Bannockburn 2014 actually happening and is anyone going?

http://www.eventscotland.org/news/2012/ ... -programme

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:47 am
by Fox
I've not heard anything for a while.
It did sound like they'd been listening and it was promising.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:24 am
by zauberdachs
Any word about a 2013 warm up event?

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:19 am
by guthrie
About 4 minutes in it gets onto Bannockburn, and there's the usual flannel, but they are definitely committed to a battle re-enactment in late June 2014. Albeit with the clan societies stuff, a 3rd day, and various bits and pieces.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/scotland-22279362

Although i note that they said back in February that they would have an organiser for it by March, this is April. Their preferred contractor, if I've heard it right is Unique Events.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:30 am
by zauberdachs
Cool, I know Unique Events from my old job in Edinburgh. Not aware that they've ever run a re-enactment before but they are capable event organisers.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:08 am
by guthrie
zauberdachs wrote:Cool, I know Unique Events from my old job in Edinburgh. Not aware that they've ever run a re-enactment before but they are capable event organisers.
They have done Hogmanay in Edinburgh for years, it seems, which does suggest they know how to organise events (Although as an Edinburger I think Hogmanay nowadays is ridiculously commercialised). The problem is more who will apparently be involved in running the battle...

And they would like 15,000 tickets sold per day, which would be pretty busy; over 3 days that would be more than the Homecoming 2009 Highland games which apparently reached 32,000 tickets sold, although I'm not very clear on whether that's everything including the clan village or what.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:47 am
by Lindsay
According to this article:
http://www.scotsman.com/news/arts/clans ... -1-2908193
It's the ClanRanald organising it.
Appearing in front of the committee yesterday, Sir Malcolm then said that plans to recreate the battle over three days using the Clanranald re-enactment group were “superb”.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:26 am
by Fox
That does sound different to plans voiced on this forum previously by NTS, where they seemed very alert to the sort of things that would concern me be about attending the event.
I notice that thread has now gone.
It appears to have been deliberately removed although I don't know when; it was still there when I referenced it this time last year.

I hope that politicians haven't taken over from NTS.
Independence Referendum hijack?

If it turns into a celebration of Scotishness, rather than one of history, then I'm not likely to travel north for it.
I know I'm not alone in those concerns; it might make it difficult to source an English army.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:50 am
by Fox
I've been away and done some reading.
The way the event Is being written about is setting off my spidey-sense.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:42 am
by PaulMurphy
If ClanRanald are organising it, I have my doubts about it being the biggest re-enactment ever on the site given the number of people who will stay away if it turns into a wangfest.

I may be wrong, and ClanRanald may have every intention of making the event have some resemblance to the period, and if that's the case and they can make it happen then I'll be delighted. But at the moment I am utterly flabbergasted that they would even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:52 am
by Fox
It occurs to me that England, and even Scotland, are not the only source for re-enactors.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:38 pm
by PaulMurphy
True - Hastings in particular has always managed to attract large numbers from France, Holland, Germany, Denmark, Poland and Russia, but that's on the basis that they can cross the channel and drive for an hour to get to the show. Adding 8-10 hours to the trip might not be as attractive, although flights into Glasgow and Edinburgh and a coach to pick them up while the kit travels by truck is always possible.

The reality is that if they can't attract the Scottish and English groups who can do the period, their hopes of getting people from further afield are slim. There are few enough people who can do this period already without alienating them all a year before the event.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:02 pm
by Biro
Hm.. I did have half an eye on this for a future event... Now? May have to get some wood just in case I need to fashion a bargepole.. Watching carefully...

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:40 pm
by guthrie
Hmm, if they do get foreign re-enactors, theres several potential issues which would need to be dealt with.
1) language, not all will speak good english, not all need to, but some have to be able to. There's also battlefield commands to consider.
2) Combat style, we all know that some of the east european and other groups have different methods and the like which can lead to confusion. Although maybe if foreign groups fight each other problems could be minimised
3) I'm not sure that kit and costume are identical between England and Europe at the time, I'm sure others can advise whether there is much of a difference.

Getting the site itself into useful order will require some work, since the old place to have isn't really up to scratch, maybe the new centre and accompanying massacre of trees has opened it up a bit, and some groundworks for better drainage would be a good idea.

It would be interesting to try and raise some locals or non-reenactors, but the easiest way to do it would be to parcel them out to re-enactment groups and leave the training to them.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:59 am
by zauberdachs
It does crack me up, from http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home ... 1366784822to read stuff like:
Mr MacGregor wrote:international clan societies were "surprised and disappointed" to hear that Clans 2014 had been replaced, not by a clan event, but by a battle re-enactment.


So on the one hand you have successful year on year growth of reenactment events like Lanark/Chatelherault and on the other hand you have the last Clan Gathering in 2009 losing somewhere between 300,000 to 700,000 pounds. To me (and obviously to NTS, Stirling Council and the Scottish Government) that demonstrates that another fantasy tartan-fest is a sure fire money loser. Not so to Mr Macgregor who hopefully is getting upset and making noise because he has been given absolutely no influence over the future Bannockburn event.
PaulMurphy wrote:The reality is that if they can't attract the Scottish and English groups who can do the period, their hopes of getting people from further afield are slim.
Not least the fact that foreign re-enactors talk to Uk re-enactors and if they are told not to bother by UK re-enactors...

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:33 am
by guthrie
I'm sure we could be re-assured, by things like a decent kit guide, or discussions or plans about the battle?

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:17 am
by zauberdachs
Guthrie wrote:I'm sure we could be re-assured, by things like a decent kit guide, or discussions or plans about the battle?
Decent kit guide would probably do it for most people at this time, I would imagine?

I'm curious if someone did want to contact the "movers and shakers" from the Uk reenacting scene, what would that list look like? Who are the "top ten" most influential people in terms of providing numbers for events in UK reenactment at the moment? :)

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:55 am
by Nigel
A czech friend has laready asked me about it so perhaps the tentacles are heading that way I told him based on my epereinces not to bother

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:45 am
by Biro
zauberdachs wrote:I'm curious if someone did want to contact the "movers and shakers" from the Uk reenacting scene, what would that list look like? Who are the "top ten" most influential people in terms of providing numbers for events in UK reenactment at the moment? :)
I'm not sure they really exist for that period - certainly not 10 of them!

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:50 am
by zauberdachs
Biro wrote:
zauberdachs wrote:I'm curious if someone did want to contact the "movers and shakers" from the Uk reenacting scene, what would that list look like? Who are the "top ten" most influential people in terms of providing numbers for events in UK reenactment at the moment? :)
I'm not sure they really exist for that period - certainly not 10 of them!
Fair point. I wonder who the top 5 are who can approximate this time period.

Nige would be on it, but I think he'd take some convincing ;)

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:00 am
by Nigel
I bloody wouldnt I cna think of laods more folks more deserving than me starting with Fox,and Murph on here

And clorogfmed and bound hand and foot after last time I still recall the bruising the clan gave to my gentlemans parts

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:05 am
by Fox
zauberdachs wrote:Fair point. I wonder who the top 5 are who can approximate this time period.

Nige would be on it, but I think he'd take some convincing ;)
Who would you speak to sort it out for you? (which is the question you asked).

Nigel, definitely.
Paul Murphy, definitely.

If I thought they were sorting it out, I'd certainly help gather up some of the odds and sods English groups who I think could stretch to this period; there are quite a few from 13thC to 15thC who have members with the kit to do some of the simpler portrayals.

Who's still left in Scotland?

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:07 am
by Fox
There you go; Nigel and I are in agreement. :)

But you only have to look at this thread to see we'd take some talking round at the moment.

Which is a huge shame.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:37 am
by guthrie
There's still quite a few left in Scotland, I just haven't seen them for a while.
Maybe enough to make up 30 or 40 combatants anyway.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:52 am
by Fox
And who's the go-to-guy to get them organised?

And 40 Scottish combatants isn't anything like enough to get the biggest re-enactment on site.
I checked the records for some previous Bannockburn re-enactments and there have been more 200 combatants on the field.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:05 pm
by guthrie
Fox wrote:And who's the go-to-guy to get them organised?

And 40 Scottish combatants isn't anything like enough to get the biggest re-enactment on site.
I checked the records for some previous Bannockburn re-enactments and there have been more 200 combatants on the field.
Really? Wow. 100 a side would be a good start, I wonder where the others came from?
There might be some Americans or Antipodeans interested too, but hardly 200 of them.

I recall the 2007 one looked more like 30 a side, although since I was fighting I might not have counted accurately.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:08 pm
by Fox
guthrie wrote:Really? Wow. 100 a side would be a good start, I wonder where the others came from?
For the Scots? A good number of Irish, some Welsh and even some English. [IIRC]

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:33 pm
by Fox
guthrie wrote:I recall the 2007 one looked more like 30 a side, although since I was fighting I might not have counted accurately.
IIRC, 2002 was well over a hundred, 2003 was 200+. [EDIT: years corrected]

From 2003, via Colin MacDonald [click the image to see the full shot; play spot people you know]
Image

[EDIT picture that didn't work removed, and it was the wrong year anyway.]

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:52 pm
by guthrie
Not bad, we didn't get quite those numbers when I was involved around 2004 to 2007 or so. The schiltron one doesn't load though.

Re: Bannockburn 2014

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:09 pm
by PaulMurphy
The numbers were high because Plantagenet Events went out of their way to get a large number of people from England to attend, who were drawn mainly from groups which did the WotR period or who were part of generic "medieval" groups. They had a kit guide, and in the main they tried to get people to stick to it, so overall the impression was OK. There was an element of wang which wasn't addressed, but it was in the minority and some compromises were made to keep the numbers up.

2002 was about 200 people in total, 2003 had maybe 250-300, with the battlefield counts being about 150 and 200 for those years. In subsequent years, some of those people decided the event wasn't worth the effort, so it was never as large again. It also rained rather a lot, which demonstrated the difficulties with moving a midsummer event in Scotland to September to avoid a clash with the major English events.

I did a write-up at http://www.histrenact.co.uk/pictures/ba ... inpage.php which took a lot of flak for criticising people who had made the effort to get there, but hadn't made the effort to get the kit right. Some of those people are now friends ;-)