16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

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Tiddles
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16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by Tiddles »

I am looking for a sallet and want to know is 16 gauge is considered a safe thickness.

I can’t afford 14 gauge and know the 18 gauge is too thin. Most groups I have spoken to say 16 gauge on helmets is the minimum for their safety rules.

Second hand helmets are hard to find so will have to get new.

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Captain Reech
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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by Captain Reech »

There can be a lot of factors other than simply the thickness of the material. Construction, shape and the hardness of the steel are also important factors. The cost savings on some of the cheaper helms are down to more than just a lighter grade of steel, as a rule of thumb: beaten is better than spun, one piece construction better than welded, check there are no protruding rivets or bolts on the inside and always make sure the visor will stay where you put it (nothing worse than having your visor move in the middle of a fight and blind you!) If you can then it's always best to actually handle the item before purchasing which should give you a better idea of how robust it will be. I appreciate that can be hard when you need something in a hurry and want to order from an internet trader, perhaps if you could post a link to the helmet you are planning to buy there may be someone who has already purchased or handled one who can give you their opinion on it.

As for the guidelines and rules, whilst it's always important to ensure you comply with your societies safety regs, you have to remember they are MINIMUM requirements and when protecting your head it's worth waiting another month or two, hoarding the pennies and buying the best you possibly can rather than settling for the minimum.
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wyldstallions
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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by wyldstallions »

I agree with Reech. It does depend on the helm but as a general rule I wouldn't go out with anything less than 14 gauge personally.

I thing to watch out for with some traders (I've only heard of it happening with ebay traders), is that they measure the thickness of the helm after the edge has been rolled giving you totally the wrong reading. So when you get the helm it's much thinner that the measurements would suggest Just something to watch out for.

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Captain Reech
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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by Captain Reech »

I keep chuckling now, being reminded of a Terry Pratchet gag about "Bows and Ammo" magazine running a Which? type test involving Helmets and Axes.....but it might not be a bad idea....any manufacturers prepared to have a sample of their helmets destruction tested by a panel of re-enactors? If you got a good result I'm sure it would boost sales....well, amongst the survivors anyway......
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."
Edmund Burke(1729 – 1797)
Proof that being "Conservative" wasn't always a bad thing.....

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Tiddles
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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by Tiddles »

This is the helmet;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170600279119? ... 1423.l2649

The trader is part of Southern Swords.

They say I can try befor I buy.
It made by Get Ready For Battle

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Captain Reech
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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by Captain Reech »

Try before you buy for definite, it's always a good sign when a trader is prepared to do that. If you can get someone experienced from your group to have a look and give an opinion for your own peave of mind. My only thought is to see how the visor stays up, some of the cheaper helmets I've seen don't lock up (I have one myself!) and it's a pain, and don't forget to wear an arming cap when you try it for size, preferably the one you are intending to use (may sound like sucking eggs but I forgot once and then found the visor squashed my nose when I had a cap on underneath.) :doh:
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."
Edmund Burke(1729 – 1797)
Proof that being "Conservative" wasn't always a bad thing.....

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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by Mark Griffin »

buy ebay helmet - turn upside down - plant flowers in. Go to proper armourer who makes good stuff and knows what he is doing.

Its your head so your life or continued quality of it. Why skimp?

That's my advice anyway.
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wulfenganck
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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by wulfenganck »

Tiddles wrote:This is the helmet;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170600279119? ... 1423.l2649

The trader is part of Southern Swords.

They say I can try befor I buy.
It made by Get Ready For Battle
Well, trying it out before buying is definitely reasonable.
OT, but: what time period are you going for? Because AFAIK this is a type of sallet I'd put into very. very late 15th century, i.e. the 1490s and much more into 16th century.
IIRC there are some italian paintings which show this type of lames on the backhead, but Italy is/was always....strange.....I can't recall a type like that for the rest of Europe until the turn of the 15th ct.

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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by Marcus Woodhouse »

I've not even seen that and I look at lots of Italian stuff as I portray an Italian. The lames yes, but not on a visored sallet.
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John Waller
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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by John Waller »

The old GDFB used to send out items for evaluation. They sent me one of their german lobster tailed sallets. The visor came off as I lifted it out of the box! I also bought a bargain sallet by mail from a chap on the MyArmoury forum. Nothing wrong with the helmet but it's way too big for me (for sale if anyone with a fat head is interested). Moral - try before you buy.
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Tod
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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by Tod »

Have a read of this thread http://livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewt ... =2&t=28042

Things I learnt. First helmet from ebay when I thought I'd try medieval for a year. Fit OK, thickness OK as I wasn't doing hand to hand, shape was pretty bad. Second helmet bought second hand after I decided medieval was OK for a once a year era. Fit OK, thickness better, shape Ok but the visor hit my nose. Third helmet bought new from a trader at TORM. Fit not good but perfect after I modified it (I have an oval head not a round one). Thickness OK, shape pretty good, I still have this one as a loan helmet. Fourth helmet after I decided 15th century was what I wanted to do. Fit good, thickness very good, shape excellent. Bought from an armourer at the market.
The first two were bought because I thought I'd just try medieval, then I got a guilty feeling as they were so bad I think I wore them once each. The third one I bought as I knew what I wanted, as it happens I wouldn't buy from that trader again as I found out they ripped off the shape form a UK armourer and got them produced abroad. The third one I saw, it was used but some times you just think wow that looks like the pictures. Its an open faced sallet, it would take a blow and protect me, but if some one came at me so hard that I needed it I'd wonder if they were mental or stupid. I remember the tournaments at the old LHF, all very bash and crash but the blokes had full kit on and there was no one else near as it was in an arena. I like other archers are on the field with a lot less armour, if I got hit as hard as the blokes in the arena I'd end up in A and E. So my helmet is there in case of accidents not there as a target. To date all all the WOTRF events I've been to I've not had one person try and hurt me for real, and I always end up being killed. On the other hand I've had two blokes at medieval wang fests try and do me damage, the first was stabbing at my face ( I told him to **** off and went to another part of the field), the other was a bloke trying to smash my shins by sweeping with his pole arm (he got told to **** off as well just as I stood on the head of his glave and hit him full on with all my body weight. I had no where to go as there were people all round. People wonder why I detest wang events so much :roll:
So I would suggst you get a helmet that looks right, fits well and will protect you from idiots.

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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by Brian la Zouche »

[quote="Tod"]
So I would suggst you get a helmet that looks right, fits well and will protect you from idiots.[/quote]

number 1 = easy
number 2 = easy

number 3 = please let me know when these go in production :-)

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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by Marcus Woodhouse »

Its off task but I too note a direct correlation between wangness and battlefield ill disipline/manners. Weird.
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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by Tod »

Maybe it's a complete lack of understanding in every way.

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uksimes
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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by uksimes »

Um, how do you know/work out the guage on a helmet?
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John Waller
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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by John Waller »

uksimes wrote:Um, how do you know/work out the guage on a helmet?
You measure it with a measure - calipers, micrometer, even a ruler if you have an unturned edge etc. Best to take several measurements at different points in case thickness varies. As Griff has pointed out real armour was made to be thickest in the most vital areas so varied across the piece. Then consult this handy table for standard steel:-

Thickness
Gauge in mm
8 0.1644 4.176
9 0.1495 3.797
10 0.1345 3.416
11 0.1196 3.038
12 0.1046 2.657
13 0.0897 2.278
14 0.0747 1.897
15 0.0673 1.709
16 0.0598 1.519
17 0.0538 1.367
18 0.0478 1.214

Note measures of gauge vary depending on material so aluminium will be different to stainless steel which will be different to mild steel etc.

Edit. Hm that table did not post particularly clearly. Fist col = gauge, 2nd thickness in Inches, 3rd thickness in mm.
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Captain Reech
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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by Captain Reech »

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:Its off task but I too note a direct correlation between wangness and battlefield ill disipline/manners. Weird.
In my experience there are two kinds of "Wang" fighters who can cause problems on a battlefield (big generalisation, but most fall roughly into one of these catergories)
Catergory 1:The "New to it all, bought ill advised kit, really excited at first couple of battles" class, a large number of these never return the following year (either through deciding they didn't like it or getting booted out for being dangerous), a percentage who have caught the bug get the attentions of their group 'Thenty Officer and Training officer who come back better equipped and safer and a few progress to catergory 2

Catergory 2: Don't listen, don't care and think they are Conan, Hercules, Robin the Hoodie, Lancelot etc....usually end up in "that group that makes you shudder" (after being asked to leave by everyone else). Tend to come on the field wearing a Jack, a barbutte and fancy gauntlets with little other equipment whilst wielding a two handed sword (or, God help us, two swords that look vaguely "Elvish") in a manner that can be best described as "Enthusiastic". Best left to a: The Marshalls, b: Some big, skilled blokes in good armour or, in extreme cases c: The local Constabulary.
(Category 2 often own a mixture of garish kit items from a wide range of datelines...and a fox tail)

(I had a lot of innocent fun with a catergory 2 once who, when he spotted a line of polearms, made the mistake of telling us he "didn't like fighting bills".....that was a lovely afternoon <sigh>)
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."
Edmund Burke(1729 – 1797)
Proof that being "Conservative" wasn't always a bad thing.....

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Re: 16 Gauge Sallet Helmet Safe?

Post by Marcus Woodhouse »

He must have spawned or we have shared experiences, a right wanger told a few of us the same thing at Berkely after charging in and being shoved back by numerous spears. Mike told him that he wasn't fighting he was just whirling his sword around a lot and being repeatedly "killed". fighting didn't come into it.

And then I expect I ran away. |(
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