15thC Rondel Dagger Sheaths.

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Dave B
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15thC Rondel Dagger Sheaths.

Post by Dave B »

In the off season i thought I'd make myself a nice sheath for my Rondel dagger, but I'm struggling to know exactly what it should look like. I've heard it stated that the 15thC sheaths tended to cover the lower rondel, and I've seen several pictures of ordinary(ish) people wearing them, but not good enough images to see how they attach to the belt. It does appear that for the 15thC they sit quite high compared to the belt and quite upright, but its never clear to me how they attach.

Does anyone have any usefull images?

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_spot_rondel.html
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Re: 15thC Rondel Dagger Sheaths.

Post by Mark Griffin »

Pretty sure the Wallace Collection has some. They usually cover the lower rondel and so have a bucket for it to sit in. Dust and rubble prevents me looking at my catalogue but a quick email to them will probably get you some images. they have now completed the photography for the new catalogue.

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Re: 15thC Rondel Dagger Sheaths.

Post by Mark Griffin »

http://www.griffinhistorical.com. A delicious decadent historical trifle. Thick performance jelly topped with lashings of imaginative creamy custard. You may also get a soggy event management sponge finger but it won't cost you hundreds and thousands.

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Re: 15thC Rondel Dagger Sheaths.

Post by Medicus Matt »

Oooh, made of copper sheet, nice.

You could easily replicate that in leather, made over a wooden form. Doesn't look like it's wide enough to cover the lower rondel though?
Last edited by Medicus Matt on Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 15thC Rondel Dagger Sheaths.

Post by Langley »

My Rondel (Tod's Stuff) sheath does not cover the lower rondel but I ahve seen genuine ones which do as you describe Dave. It does not attacht direct to my belt either. The sheath is simply pushed through the loops of my pouch and sits there quite happily. I usually tie the dagger into the sheath so there is a ridge formed by the thong which engages with the pouch loop and keeps the whole thing in place very effectively.

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Re: 15thC Rondel Dagger Sheaths.

Post by Colin Middleton »

I'm with Langeley on this. Most big knives seem to sit through the pouch loops. Where they are attached to the belt, it appears to be by a simple thong (okay, so the fastening of the thong probably isn't as simple as you'd expect), which may be run under the leather if you wished. I think that's what I'll be doing with my rondel sheath when I get round to making it.

Remember that knife sheaths were very highly decorated in the Middle Ages.

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Re: 15thC Rondel Dagger Sheaths.

Post by guthrie »

Yes, don't forget the chapes and the bits at the top, I'm currently fiddling about with some brass sheet for the tops and wax to do the chapes with lost wax. Shame I'm artistically challenged.

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Re: 15thC Rondel Dagger Sheaths.

Post by Dave B »

Lots of excellent points there, and obviously there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Obviously you can see examples where the lower rondel is covered, and where it is not. Reenactors all seem to have the former, so I preffered to do the latter for balance.

I've certainly seen plenty of illustrations where the knife is behind a pouch, but also plenty where it is not, so again I preffered to do the latter.

I've seen and experimented with the interpretation where the whole thing pokes down behind the belt and there is a thong to tie it on, and I had a go at that, certainly with this particular rondel it tends to move about too much and also it doesn't look like some of the pictures where the rondel appears to be on the belt rather than in it, and to sit quite low.

Griff's picture was one possible interpretation, so I made a prototype of that. it seems to work well and keep the knife nicely upright without it digging in. I'll post pictures when I find the right lead.

Thanks chaps.
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Re: 15thC Rondel Dagger Sheaths.

Post by Dave B »

Image
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Re: 15thC Rondel Dagger Sheaths.

Post by Fox »

Nice work, Dave.

Out of interest, do you have any images to hand showing this style of sheath for a rondel?

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Re: 15thC Rondel Dagger Sheaths.

Post by Dave B »

Not as many as I would like, hence the requests for ideas.

Obviously the detail of the attachment with the rings is taken from the link that Griff pasted, but the general shape is based on a number of extant sheaths in books / museum web sites, all of which fit close to the blade and flare over the bottom rondel, most of them are black and tooled/stamped. some are chaped, some unchaped. the only one I have to hand is the one on the 'Myarmoury' link in my first post, the one labeled 'burgundian circa 1490'

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then there are lots in pictures that look like they hang in this general way but where there isn't enough detail to see how they attach to the belt, like this:

Image

I'd like more 'in context' images if possible, in the meantime I'm going to wear the prototype for a bit of experimental use, to see if it works.
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