Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

[Strickland]

I remember reading somewhere and Im damned if I can find it at the mo, about a piece of equipment used by soldiers on the move that is basically a big roll up kit bag for just that, packing up your kit for going on the wagon, and when empty you fill it with straw to make a mat for sleeping on. Am I right with this, and I suspect it would have just been that; a large/long rectangle open at one end of course with a dual purpose. Someone put my mind at ease please!!
Oh and it was for 15thC.

Cheers!

Neil

[Phil the Grips]

Look for "palliasse".

[Handbag]

http://www.albrechts.se/Library/Pdfer/C ... artebo.pdf

the above link should take you to a PDF with a similar kind of thing your looking for. basically a sack split in the middle so when worn over the shoulder you get 2 pouches for your belongings and when empty can be used to stuff with straw to sleep on... also fits nicely over the withers of a horse if your lucky enough to have one!!

[Strickland]

Thats it! Excellent! Damn my failing memory!! LOL!! Thank you folks!

Neil

[chrisanson]

Look for "palliasse".

beat me to it

[behanner]

Those shown being carried by soldiers in 15th century art are smaller then those shown above and are shown being carried over a polearm, bow, or staff being carried over the shoulder.

[Strickland]

Thanks for the update behanner I'll be sure to check that out!

Neil

[Colin Middleton]

basically a sack split in the middle so when worn over the shoulder you get 2 pouches for your belongings and when empty can be used to stuff with straw to sleep on... also fits nicely over the withers of a horse if your lucky enough to have one!!

That seems an odd thing to have to me. Won't straw be a comodity which you have to purchase and then only available seasonally. That doesn't seem to fit well with the 'not disposable society' of the MA.

[Dave B]

Given that most campaining was done in the summer months (not all, I know, but a lot) perhaps they weren't used with straw as such but with long grass, bracken, or other forage, whatever was available? Pure speculation on my part.

[Sir Thomas Hylton]

Bracken is supposed to make a very good bedding, apparently. Not sure I'd want to put that one to the test myself though, having seen the sorts of things that live on, or should I say, under bracken.

[The Methley Archer]

I have illustrated instructions on making reed/grass/straw/twig or similar materiel mattresses. If anyones intrested I'll try and post it up tomorrow.

[Strickland]

Hmm interesting!! Go for it Methley!!

Neil

[lucy the tudor]

Bracken is supposed to make a very good bedding, apparently. Not sure I'd want to put that one to the test myself though, having seen the sorts of things that live on, or should I say, under bracken.

Now we know that the spores released by dry bracken are very carcinogenic, it may be an unwise choice. On our agriculture module, a few aeons ago, we were warnd to be very wary of even walking through dry bracken.

[The Methley Archer]

As an aside about bracken, did you know that you can eat green young fresh shoots once boiled.

Srickland, Ive fogotten the book but I will go home later and do it this afternoon.

[Sir Thomas Hylton]

Bracken is supposed to make a very good bedding, apparently. Not sure I'd want to put that one to the test myself though, having seen the sorts of things that live on, or should I say, under bracken.

Now we know that the spores released by dry bracken are very carcinogenic, it may be an unwise choice. On our agriculture module, a few aeons ago, we were warnd to be very wary of even walking through dry bracken.

Indeed... Fairly well sums up the other part of what I know about Bracken, going back a few aeons of my own. Yet some old hiking & survival books still seem to recommend it, which quite beggers belief. As I say, really wouldn't want to put bracken to the test as a bedding. Infact would steer well clear.

[Dave B]

I think that there is now a feeling with the affected industries that the cancer risks from bracken are overstated, the way I understand it the animal studies were all in animals that eat the stuff too, there is no evidence off a substantial risk unless you eat the stuff, or drink standing water with the runnoff from bracken patches (which can concentrate the toxins). the big worry with any kind of forage bedding is ticks and lymes desease. That is nasty.

[Colin Middleton]

I have illustrated instructions on making reed/grass/straw/twig or similar materiel mattresses. If anyones intrested I'll try and post it up tomorrow.

I think that there were inventories of Caister Castle listing straw stuffed palliase.

It's the idea of it being a temporary bed that I'm sceptical about.

[Phil the Grips]

This form of split bag carried on into the C18th as a "market wallet", as ubiquitous in the US reenactment scene as snapsacks are over here and equally ubiquitous historically.

Accounts of them are numerous but I can't think of one where it makes any form of bedding (other than maybe a pillow)

[Type16]

the big worry with any kind of forage bedding is ticks and lymes desease. That is nasty.

Shout that loudly Dave!

I can certainly vouch for that. Its taken me over 5 yrs to get over Lyme - from one tick bite. I know of 1 person who died of it & several who are ill.

[behanner]

I'm skeptical in general about soldiers especially in English WOR campaigns carrying anything specifically for bedding. I suspect it was much more a situation of doing with what was availible for the night then anything. If you were going to be in a place for a while such as a siege things might be different.

But I should also say that the reality of the re-enactor is a different thing. You don't have ready access to some things that would have been ready access back in period.

I agree with Colin about palliase, it would seem to more fit into the category of a matress that was intended to be brought out and used for the night and then stored during the day as opposed to something carried for traveling.

[narvek]

Re soldiers need of bedding: when you're on enemy area, just pillage the village and voilá lots of space to sleep comfortably...

[behanner]

Re soldiers need of bedding: when you're on enemy area, just pillage the village and voilá lots of space to sleep comfortably...

That may be how things go in central Europe but that isn't the English way of doing things.

[The Methley Archer]

Heres the scan of how to make a grass mattress. I have seen a double size platted straw mattress from the early 20th C in the Country Life Museum in Co. Mayo, Ireland. It would have been like sleeping on an archery boss.

[Phil the Grips]

It would have been like sleeping on an archery boss.

I can confirm that-my granny's house had a straw mattress that must have been fairly ancient twentyfive years ago when I slept on it last and it was certainly "character building".

[EwanDoc]

For mainland Europe, a makeshift bed is very easy to make. Lay out thin, springy material like twigs under a thick, soft, layer of forage material. Bracken is ideal, but the trick is to lay it out in a herringbone pattern, crossing the top of the plants in the middle. I've used a rollmat instead, our Medieval counterparts could have used cloaks or blankets to provide the padding if forage was unavailable. With a shelter over it and a campfire, it can be a very cosy night's sleep!

[narvek]

There were few great threads re:orfentik camping already. Worth looking them up.