Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

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Strickland
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Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Strickland » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:52 pm

I remember reading somewhere and Im damned if I can find it at the mo, about a piece of equipment used by soldiers on the move that is basically a big roll up kit bag for just that, packing up your kit for going on the wagon, and when empty you fill it with straw to make a mat for sleeping on. Am I right with this, and I suspect it would have just been that; a large/long rectangle open at one end of course with a dual purpose. Someone put my mind at ease please!!
Oh and it was for 15thC.

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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Phil the Grips » Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:07 pm

Look for "palliasse".


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Handbag » Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:12 pm

http://www.albrechts.se/Library/Pdfer/C ... artebo.pdf

the above link should take you to a PDF with a similar kind of thing your looking for. basically a sack split in the middle so when worn over the shoulder you get 2 pouches for your belongings and when empty can be used to stuff with straw to sleep on... also fits nicely over the withers of a horse if your lucky enough to have one!!



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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Strickland » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:30 am

Thats it! Excellent! Damn my failing memory!! LOL!! Thank you folks!

Neil


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby chrisanson » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:34 am

Phil the Grips wrote:Look for "palliasse".

beat me to it :rock:



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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby behanner » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:06 pm

Those shown being carried by soldiers in 15th century art are smaller then those shown above and are shown being carried over a polearm, bow, or staff being carried over the shoulder.



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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Strickland » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:21 pm

Thanks for the update behanner I'll be sure to check that out!

Neil


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Colin Middleton » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:39 pm

Handbag wrote:basically a sack split in the middle so when worn over the shoulder you get 2 pouches for your belongings and when empty can be used to stuff with straw to sleep on... also fits nicely over the withers of a horse if your lucky enough to have one!!


That seems an odd thing to have to me. Won't straw be a comodity which you have to purchase and then only available seasonally. That doesn't seem to fit well with the 'not disposable society' of the MA.


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Dave B » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:54 pm

Given that most campaining was done in the summer months (not all, I know, but a lot) perhaps they weren't used with straw as such but with long grass, bracken, or other forage, whatever was available? Pure speculation on my part.


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Sir Thomas Hylton » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:45 pm

Bracken is supposed to make a very good bedding, apparently. Not sure I'd want to put that one to the test myself though, having seen the sorts of things that live on, or should I say, under bracken.



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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby The Methley Archer » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:06 pm

I have illustrated instructions on making reed/grass/straw/twig or similar materiel mattresses. If anyones intrested I'll try and post it up tomorrow.


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Strickland » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:23 pm

Hmm interesting!! Go for it Methley!! :thumbup:

Neil :twisted:


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby lucy the tudor » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:45 pm

Sir Thomas Hylton wrote:Bracken is supposed to make a very good bedding, apparently. Not sure I'd want to put that one to the test myself though, having seen the sorts of things that live on, or should I say, under bracken.


Now we know that the spores released by dry bracken are very carcinogenic, it may be an unwise choice. On our agriculture module, a few aeons ago, we were warnd to be very wary of even walking through dry bracken.


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby The Methley Archer » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:36 am

As an aside about bracken, did you know that you can eat green young fresh shoots once boiled.

Srickland, Ive fogotten the book but I will go home later and do it this afternoon.


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Sir Thomas Hylton » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:04 am

lucy the tudor wrote:
Sir Thomas Hylton wrote:Bracken is supposed to make a very good bedding, apparently. Not sure I'd want to put that one to the test myself though, having seen the sorts of things that live on, or should I say, under bracken.


Now we know that the spores released by dry bracken are very carcinogenic, it may be an unwise choice. On our agriculture module, a few aeons ago, we were warnd to be very wary of even walking through dry bracken.


Indeed... :ugeek: Fairly well sums up the other part of what I know about Bracken, going back a few aeons of my own. Yet some old hiking & survival books still seem to recommend it, which quite beggers belief. As I say, really wouldn't want to put bracken to the test as a bedding. Infact would steer well clear.



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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Dave B » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:55 am

I think that there is now a feeling with the affected industries that the cancer risks from bracken are overstated, the way I understand it the animal studies were all in animals that eat the stuff too, there is no evidence off a substantial risk unless you eat the stuff, or drink standing water with the runnoff from bracken patches (which can concentrate the toxins). the big worry with any kind of forage bedding is ticks and lymes desease. That is nasty.


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Colin Middleton » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:47 pm

The Methley Archer wrote:I have illustrated instructions on making reed/grass/straw/twig or similar materiel mattresses. If anyones intrested I'll try and post it up tomorrow.


I think that there were inventories of Caister Castle listing straw stuffed palliase.

It's the idea of it being a temporary bed that I'm sceptical about.


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Phil the Grips » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:11 pm

This form of split bag carried on into the C18th as a "market wallet", as ubiquitous in the US reenactment scene as snapsacks are over here and equally ubiquitous historically.

Accounts of them are numerous but I can't think of one where it makes any form of bedding (other than maybe a pillow)


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Type16 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:20 pm

Dave B wrote: the big worry with any kind of forage bedding is ticks and lymes desease. That is nasty.

Shout that loudly Dave!

I can certainly vouch for that. Its taken me over 5 yrs to get over Lyme - from one tick bite. I know of 1 person who died of it & several who are ill.


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby behanner » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:13 pm

I'm skeptical in general about soldiers especially in English WOR campaigns carrying anything specifically for bedding. I suspect it was much more a situation of doing with what was availible for the night then anything. If you were going to be in a place for a while such as a siege things might be different.

But I should also say that the reality of the re-enactor is a different thing. You don't have ready access to some things that would have been ready access back in period.

I agree with Colin about palliase, it would seem to more fit into the category of a matress that was intended to be brought out and used for the night and then stored during the day as opposed to something carried for traveling.



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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby narvek » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:17 pm

Re soldiers need of bedding: when you're on enemy area, just pillage the village and voilá lots of space to sleep comfortably...


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby behanner » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:21 pm

narvek wrote:Re soldiers need of bedding: when you're on enemy area, just pillage the village and voilá lots of space to sleep comfortably...

That may be how things go in central Europe but that isn't the English way of doing things.



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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby The Methley Archer » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:33 am

Heres the scan of how to make a grass mattress. I have seen a double size platted straw mattress from the early 20th C in the Country Life Museum in Co. Mayo, Ireland. It would have been like sleeping on an archery boss.
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Grass mattress.jpg


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby Phil the Grips » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:47 am

The Methley Archer wrote:It would have been like sleeping on an archery boss.

I can confirm that-my granny's house had a straw mattress that must have been fairly ancient twentyfive years ago when I slept on it last and it was certainly "character building".


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby EwanDoc » Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:23 pm

For mainland Europe, a makeshift bed is very easy to make. Lay out thin, springy material like twigs under a thick, soft, layer of forage material. Bracken is ideal, but the trick is to lay it out in a herringbone pattern, crossing the top of the plants in the middle. I've used a rollmat instead, our Medieval counterparts could have used cloaks or blankets to provide the padding if forage was unavailable. With a shelter over it and a campfire, it can be a very cosy night's sleep!


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Re: Sleeping bag/bed/bag thing!

Postby narvek » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:13 pm

There were few great threads re:orfentik camping already. Worth looking them up.


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