Brigadines for an archer

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Tod
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Brigadines for an archer

Postby Tod » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:13 am

Can any one recommend a maker, WOTR period.



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby matlot » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:43 am

white rose apparel very nice can be quite expencivehttp://www.whiteroseapparel.com/brigandines.htm


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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Allan Harley » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:14 pm

They are but worth it, quality is excellent


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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Nigel » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:30 pm

White rose or ash


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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby kate/bob » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:32 pm

Love my White Rose archer's brig. The only problem is realising when I've been shot cause I don't feel it through the brig!



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby House of De Clifford » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:32 pm

Hi Tod,
Can't reccomend Steves brigs enough from White Rose. I wear mine for fighting in against sword, bill axe etc... and it takes all the hits without any problems. They truly are superb and worth every penny.
Dave.


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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Tod » Tue May 04, 2010 11:26 am

I've had a good look through my books and on the web but would ask those more knowledgeable then myself if you could help me. I’m thinking of trying to make a brigadine myself.
I think Iron Dwarf would be able to help me with the plates although I have access to some metal working M/C’s.
Should it be lined? Most of the pictures seem to show the plates so I’m guessing the answer is no, but then don’t the plates and nails catch the garment worn underneath?
Are copper rivets correct or should they be steel?
If I were to wear an arming doublet made of heavy linen underneath, with jack chains on the arms would this be an anachronism? One picture seems to show this.
Would leather be the right outer material for the brig. Note I’m an archer who when not soldiering is a leatherworker (no such thing as such, so read that as shoemaker, bottler, pouch maker).
Any help appreciated.



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Colin Middleton » Wed May 05, 2010 12:50 pm

Tod wrote:Note I’m an archer who when not soldiering is a leatherworker (no such thing as such, so read that as shoemaker, bottler, pouch maker).
Any help appreciated.


No, you are a leatherworker (...what he said) who is sometimes hired as an archer. Archer isn't a profession. Think TA for medieval soldiers.


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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Colin Middleton » Wed May 05, 2010 12:55 pm

Tod wrote:IShould it be lined? Most of the pictures seem to show the plates so I’m guessing the answer is no, but then don’t the plates and nails catch the garment worn underneath?

I'd have said yes, though that lining may be a separate garment (arming doublet) worn underneith. That said, if you've finished your rivits well, they shouldn't catch much.

Tod wrote:Are copper rivets correct or should they be steel?

I don't know, but you should be able to make steel (should be iron) rivits quite easily from nails.

Tod wrote:If I were to wear an arming doublet made of heavy linen underneath, with jack chains on the arms would this be an anachronism? One picture seems to show this.

The arming doublet sounds like a plan, you might even wear sleeve re-inforces over the top. What do you mean by an arming doublet though and what other armour are you wearing?

Tod wrote:Would leather be the right outer material for the brig.

Thank God, I'm fed up of everyone having velvet covered brigs! I'd say cover it with wool, canvas, leather or fustian for your status.

Good luck!


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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Tod » Wed May 05, 2010 1:17 pm

Colin Middleton wrote:
Tod wrote:IShould it be lined? Most of the pictures seem to show the plates so I’m guessing the answer is no, but then don’t the plates and nails catch the garment worn underneath?

I'd have said yes, though that lining may be a separate garment (arming doublet) worn underneith. That said, if you've finished your rivits well, they shouldn't catch much.
I should be able to make them fairly smooth (ex toolmaker not blacksmith :wink: )

Tod wrote:Are copper rivets correct or should they be steel?

I don't know, but you should be able to make steel (should be iron) rivits quite easily from nails.
OK Iron

Tod wrote:If I were to wear an arming doublet made of heavy linen underneath, with jack chains on the arms would this be an anachronism? One picture seems to show this.

The arming doublet sounds like a plan, you might even wear sleeve re-inforces over the top. What do you mean by an arming doublet though and what other armour are you wearing?
I was thinking like a doublet but stronger (materail), the other armour, upper legs and jack chains only.

Tod wrote:Would leather be the right outer material for the brig.

Thank God, I'm fed up of everyone having velvet covered brigs! I'd say cover it with wool, canvas, leather or fustian for your status.

Good luck!



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Fox » Thu May 06, 2010 8:50 am

Colin Middleton wrote:I'd say cover it with wool, canvas, leather or fustian for your status.

Do you have a supplier for a medieval fustian?



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu May 06, 2010 9:29 am

Do you mean do you know someone who can sell you some now, or was there fustian in the middle ages?


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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby John Waller » Thu May 06, 2010 9:47 am

Fox wrote:
Colin Middleton wrote:I'd say cover it with wool, canvas, leather or fustian for your status.

Do you have a supplier for a medieval fustian?


Stuart does a fustian - not cheap though

http://www.stuart-hmaltd.com/historical_fabrics.php


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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Colin Middleton » Thu May 06, 2010 12:45 pm

Fox wrote:
Colin Middleton wrote:I'd say cover it with wool, canvas, leather or fustian for your status.

Do you have a supplier for a medieval fustian?


I could get you the name for the fellow that John Howard was using...

I'm guessing that you want a modern reproduction of medieval fustian, in which case, no I haven't. Sarah Thursfield always says to use cotton moleskin (which is also hard to find), or possibly a peached cotton. The authenticity's not 100% but it's better than the cotton velvet which you often see on brigandines.

There was quite a good discussion of Tudor fustians in Costume: http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9140

Best wishes


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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Tod » Thu May 06, 2010 2:45 pm

I'll be going for leather.



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Laffin Jon Terris » Thu May 06, 2010 8:18 pm

Leather is fine, I'd still recommend a decent canvas foundation under the leather to help avoid unwanted stretching in areas.

As to rivet issues, a full lungplate style brig has over 1000 nails (I have used copper nails on two so far, it is a darn sight easier on the hands).

That said, because of the overlap very few of them are exposed in a way that might cause damage to a jack or arming doublet.

Not everyone has a velvet brig, there are quite a few around in other fabrics. I did mine in velvet because I wanted to- if I'm going to all that trouble to make a nice item of kit I wanted to make it "posh" too.

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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Fox » Fri May 07, 2010 3:28 pm

John Waller wrote:
Fox wrote:
Colin Middleton wrote:I'd say cover it with wool, canvas, leather or fustian for your status.

Do you have a supplier for a medieval fustian?


Stuart does a fustian - not cheap though

http://www.stuart-hmaltd.com/historical_fabrics.php


Actually by Medieval fustian I was thinking wool and linen; although a Manchester Cotton (linen and cotton) or wool/cotton fustian should both be authentic.

I think Stuart and I have the same source (I saw his name in the order book last time I was there).

I picked up a beautiful hand woven cotton/wool fustian that I'm making in to sailor's slops, even the wool is hand spun.
[By "I'm making", of course, I mean the memsab]
I'm trying to convince them to make a wool/linen fustian, but it might not come off.

I was just letting Colin get my hopes up....



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Sophia » Fri May 07, 2010 10:30 pm

If you have a good supplier of suitings you could look for wool/cotton suiting, this often has a raised ridged nap and Ninya Mikhaila says it is a good pass for Holmes fustian. Interestingly when the moths had a go at a pair of sleeves made in this fabric they only ate the raised nap and not the background weave which suggests that this is where most of the wool is.


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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby The Iron Dwarf » Fri May 07, 2010 10:49 pm

have a large quantity of flat headed brass rivets, have today been using steel nails as flat headed rivets, have some copper nails for selling as rivets but the head seems a bit thin to me.

cutting plates is not hard



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Tod » Tue May 11, 2010 10:24 am

Is the only reason the plates are tinned is to stop corrosion?
I've got some drawings and some pictures so my first stage is to make up to outter. Some people think I should put linen or another materail as a backing on the leather, but if the leather is cut the right way (this is common practice in shoe making) it shouldn't stretch other than in the normal direction of an animal. Bovine hide 1.2mm thick should be OK although I've thought of using deer skin (?). I've also thought that as its tight to the body it should hold its shape. I'll try one section first and see what the leather does with the weight on it.
I'm going to use steel/iron rivets and tin them. Is that right? Do the rivets have washers underneath to stop them pulling through?
Once its made I'm going to line it with linen. The buckles will be cast from originals. All the sewing/riveting/cutting etc will be done by hand.
This is going to take a while. Even sourcing the leather.



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby nathan f » Sun May 16, 2010 2:35 pm

i am planning on making a brig this summer and hopefully a coat of plates so leather will be an issue for the cop but i want to go with velvet for the brig.
i believe that yes they were tinned solely for this reason as unless you take it all apart there is no way to fix or remove rust from the plates.
i am just using painted galvanized steel as sourcing tin was too awkward. still need to figure out where to get my rivets im thinking of using clout nails though.
they do not have washers as you can rivet straight onto the plates.
might be better to use brass rivets or so as iron one may corrode.
would be good to hear your progress as i will be in the same boat so might be useful as we both encounter problems etc i have been researching this for months now to make sure i do it right here are some handy links that may help
http://www.reliquary.co.uk/brig/brig1.htm
http://www.eskimo.com/~cwn/brig_craig1.html
i have a few others but these may help im considering making an archer one but i have never seen the inside of one so cant figure out the plates can anyone help?



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Tod » Mon May 17, 2010 3:02 pm

Nathan, I think I read your posts on the AA. I don't want to use brass rivets, although easier I think they would be wrong for the level I'm aiming at, thats the same reason I'm going for leather as acovering rather than velvet.
I think the links you have show the plate postioning they should help you, thats what I'm working from.



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby guthrie » Tue May 18, 2010 6:10 pm

How are you managing the buckles cast from originals one? Last I asked the MoL about making replicas of anything it would have been another level of paperwork compared to just looking at them. Or do you have a secret source or are the armouries more helpful?

Or if its just casting from period buckles which look like they could have been used on a brig, thats easy enough.



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Tod » Wed May 19, 2010 8:44 am

The buckles (which are on my web site) are cast using an original as the former or master. There not off a brig. but from the same time period. I can honestly say they are as close as I can get to the originals. I have used original ones that I've cleaned up, I also had a friend do a wonderful job of cleaning some (which I still owe them for!). The quality of the casting is really high so it shows any details unlike some of the lumpy bumpy one with fence wire as pins.



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Tod » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:59 pm

I did a costing exercise and have come to the conclusion I am better off buying a brig than making one. I saw ASH at the week end and his Brigs are excellent, well made and meet all my requirements. Has any one here got one of his?



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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby John Waller » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:29 pm

Tod wrote:I did a costing exercise and have come to the conclusion I am better off buying a brig than making one. I saw ASH at the week end and his Brigs are excellent, well made and meet all my requirements. Has any one here got one of his?


Tod how much were Ash's brigs? I drooled over the red one but didn't dare ask the price.


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Re: Brigadines for an archer

Postby Tod » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:00 pm

I've just emailed ASH to see if he is going to Bosworth :wink:




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