Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

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Steve Churchill
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Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Steve Churchill »

Thought I'd ask here, what do people reckon on the above? Are they 'acceptable', I know there have been issues with Steel Mastery's customer service but they do produce the most cost effective Brigs out there (the average one over here being around £5-600, as compared to a breastplate for around £160)- the only other option being to get an actual breastplate from a UK armourer.

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Earl Mortimer
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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Earl Mortimer »

Well i've got one from steel mastery.

Do to there low cost i went for a nice blue velvet covered brig with brass rivets. The rivet heads have all rose head designs on them.

Now when it arrived. I was very pleased with it. :D
I wore it at tewkesbury and it protected me nicely plus looked stunning but i had to put it under wraps seeing that i was also wareing my

New surcoat that Debs had made me :thumbup:

BUT

The construction of the plates are the only let down on the brig. A little large and the plates are the same all over, the rivets are spaced out too. So in fairness the construction is more like a coat of plates.

So for me who only does war of the roses at tewkesbury [ 1300 - 1350 is my period ],for me the brig is fine, looks and feels the part, Protects me against them bill rib ticklers and for some one who is trying to look the part with the war of the roses lot then the cost made a big difference.
but if i was going to do the period more often then i would invest in a Steve Lunn or A.S.H Brig.

Just my thoughts hope i've been helpful
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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Earl Mortimer »

If you do go down the route of getting a breast plate then i'd recommend A.S.H

Really nice bloke, hes making me some armour, [as i slowly build up my war of the roses look just don't tell the wife :shh: :D ]

He's going to be at TORM.
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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Phil the Grips »

They seem to be "speculative" at best, in terms of historical acuraracy.
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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Marcus Woodhouse »

If it is accuracy you are after try elsewhere. I would not want to wear one on its own as armour as there are gaps in where the plates protect you (although brig's don't look as if they were ever worn without other armour to me). If you know that it'll be covered over with a livery coat and don't plan to wear it as a L.H. item give it a whirl.
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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Earl Mortimer »

Id just like to point out that the plates if not on the large side do overlap and for me do give protecten.

That's how mine is constructed and that's how I think it's advertise it on there web site?
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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Phil the Grips »

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:(although brig's don't look as if they were ever worn without other armour to me)
In a military context- as privy armour for travelling and urban defence then they were worn alone and under clothing.
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Steve Churchill
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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Steve Churchill »

Earl Mortimer, very helpful thanks as like yourself if I was only going to dabble in the 15th century then it sounds like I probably would go for the Steel Mastery brigandine. I am however hoping to get more seriously into the period so it sounds like I'll probably go for a breastplate - unless I can earn some serious brownie points with the wife and she lets me raid the savings for an A.S.H. or Whiterose brigandine (unlikely in the current financial climate :-( ).

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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Steve Churchill »

Earl Mortimer, very helpful thanks as like yourself if I was only going to dabble in the 15th century then it sounds like I probably would go for the Steel Mastery brigandine. I am however hoping to get more seriously into the period so it sounds like I'll probably go for a breastplate - unless I can earn some serious brownie points with the wife and she lets me raid the savings for an A.S.H. or Whiterose brigandine (unlikely in the current financial climate :-( ).

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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Nigel »

But before you do owt make sure your padding is sorted as good padding and a BRIg can and do work ok together quite well
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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Earl Mortimer »

Earl Mortimer wrote:Well i've got one from steel mastery.


I wore it at tewkesbury and it protected me nicely plus looked stunning but i had to put it under wraps seeing that i was also wareing my

New surcoat that Debs had made me :thumbup:

I also wear Debs padded gambie under all my armour. Good alround protection , i total recommend there products :thumbup:

Good value for money for the effort and build quality put into all products.

PM Nigel on the forum for more details if anyone is interested and want more details.

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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Friesian »

Phil the Grips wrote:
Marcus Woodhouse wrote:(although brig's don't look as if they were ever worn without other armour to me)
In a military context- as privy armour for travelling and urban defence then they were worn alone and under clothing.

Sorry don't agree with this ,Guillaume Caoursin, Vice Chancellor of the Order of St. John (knights of rhodes) writting in 1496 of the siege of 1480 (when he was present) is quite happy for the illustrations to show men (both European & Turks) engaged in one of the bloodiest struggles of the whole conflict wearing brigandines as armour in their own right .And before the cry "not european/english " goes up , the resident garison at the time was English , French , German ,Italian & Spanish .One of the illustrations in particular shows a mass of european troops mustered inside the city walls & most if not all are wearing brigs with sallets & carrying glaives .There is a rare detail showing a blue brig from behind with gilded nails with the opening at the back .

Edit
Sorry written in 1482 ,printed in 1496 , the illustrations were done in 1483 by the master of The Cardinel of Bourbon

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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Steve Churchill »

Yep a good padded jack was my Xmas present in 2009 :-)

Edging towards a munition breatplate, probably come along to TORM and chat to some of the armourers (I've had dealings with St George Armoury and was impressed), checked out the White Rose brig's and the prices are even higher than I remembered (around £800+, but this might be my PC screwing up the graphics of the page making it almost illegible) - although I don't doubt the quality.
Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?
by Nigel » Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:16 am

But before you do owt make sure your padding is sorted as good padding and a BRIg can and do work ok together quite well

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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Thomas Hayman »

The difference in price between Steel mastery and White rose is because the white rose version actually resembles a brigandine!
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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Marcus Woodhouse »

I will review my opinion of what was worn in conjunction with a brig, I will stick to what I wear though because if I don't:
a) I won't be able to secure my arm harness to anything,
b) my hose will fall down.

It does depend on what your man requires from his kit in terms of authenticity. From a crowdline I wouldn't tell the difference between a White Rose and a Steel Mastery brig. Up close in a LH camp display that would be a different case.

Mind you I find fighting in a re-encatment battle dull as dishwater so I'd be unlikely to sit and watch one so I'm not the man to judge, nor do I gush over well made swords and armour with orgiastic glee.
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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Friesian »

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:I will review my opinion of what was worn in conjunction with a brig, I will stick to what I wear though because if I don't:
a) I won't be able to secure my arm harness to anything,
b) my hose will fall down.

It does depend on what your man requires from his kit in terms of authenticity. From a crowdline I wouldn't tell the difference between a White Rose and a Steel Mastery brig. Up close in a LH camp display that would be a different case.

Mind you I find fighting in a re-encatment battle dull as dishwater so I'd be unlikely to sit and watch one so I'm not the man to judge, nor do I gush over well made swords and armour with orgiastic glee.
Hi Marcus , didnt mean what you were doing is wrong ,its probably not !
I was just saying they were a legitimate peice of armour in there own right with or without other armour .
IMO due to the lack of surviving brigs we all seem to be overlooking the possible variations that haven't survived by putting it down to artistic licence where they are shown in manuscripts .For example the brig I refer to that buckles at the back also has T-Shirt length sleeves , also (BTW) there was a 15thc brigandine cap on display in the British Museum in the early 20thc .I have the catalogue - unfortunatly no picture ,wonder if its still in the reserve collection ?

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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by kate/bob »

It was a choice between doing up our kitchen and a white rose brig - needless to say the brig won!! It's fab and much more exciting than a kitchen!

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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by House of De Clifford »

Hi,
i wear a back and breast for poncing about and generly looking shiny but for combat i wear a padded doublet with a White Rose brig, (archers brig to be specific) and to be honest, the brig and doublet combination are lovely to fight in. Although i have never tried on a brig by Ash, looking at his research and construction methods, you wont go wrong with either Ash or White Rose. Brigs can be repaired fairly easily aswell, take a lot of stick, give great protection and flexibility. Down side is they weigh in at a little more than back and breast. Trade off for slightly more flexability i suppose. Although last word from me has to be... Soft kit first then get brig made to fit, i was very lucky when buying mine second hand, i need bucket to squeeze me into it but when strapped it works superbly, getting meassured for a brig will just make it an even bigger pleasure to wear and fight in.
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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Mark T »

Friesian wrote:There is a rare detail showing a blue brig from behind with gilded nails with the opening at the back .

Edit
Sorry written in 1482 ,printed in 1496 , the illustrations were done in 1483 by the master of The Cardinel of Bourbon
Fresian, Do you have a copy of that image you could upload, or a URL to it online? I did a quick Google search, but only came up with a digitisation of Historia von Rhodis, by Gillaume Caoursin and Johannes Adelphus, (1513) at the Munich Digitisation Centre: http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db ... 35/images/

However, while it contains lots of images of garments with sleeves, I can't see any that seem to clearly be brigandines, and the illustrations are just line drawings (ie, not in colour).

There's a current thread over at MyArmoury about brigandines with sleeves, and I'd love to post the image over there: http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic ... 757#187757

Cheers,
Mark T

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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Friesian »

Mark T wrote:
Friesian wrote:There is a rare detail showing a blue brig from behind with gilded nails with the opening at the back .

Edit
Sorry written in 1482 ,printed in 1496 , the illustrations were done in 1483 by the master of The Cardinel of Bourbon
Fresian, Do you have a copy of that image you could upload, or a URL to it online? I did a quick Google search, but only came up with a digitisation of Historia von Rhodis, by Gillaume Caoursin and Johannes Adelphus, (1513) at the Munich Digitisation Centre: http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db ... 35/images/

However, while it contains lots of images of garments with sleeves, I can't see any that seem to clearly be brigandines, and the illustrations are just line drawings (ie, not in colour).

There's a current thread over at MyArmoury about brigandines with sleeves, and I'd love to post the image over there: http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic ... 757#187757

Cheers,
Mark T
Hi Mark , I too searched for images when I put my original post up ..............nothing on the web .

A lot of the images (though not all ) can be found in 'The Knights Of Rhodes' by Elias Kollias ISBN 960-213-242-6 re-printed in 2003

Hope this helps

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Knights-Rhodes- ... 607&sr=1-1

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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Marcus Woodhouse »

What is an "archer's brig"?
Would this be like the "archers falchion"?
I thought a brig was a brig and that any differences would be down to regional or financial influences, not dependent upon military task.
I struggle to visualise some vintner holding back a sword/jack/brig/knee cops on account of the recipient not being an archer ("Over there for your man-at-arms kit soldier!")
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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Mark T »

Friesian wrote:A lot of the images (though not all ) can be found in 'The Knights Of Rhodes' by Elias Kollias ISBN 960-213-242-6 re-printed in 2003

Hope this helps http://www.amazon.co.uk/Knights-Rhodes- ... 607&sr=1-1
It sure does - the brigandine with sleeves is clearly on the cover! So was that image in the series definitely done by The Cardinel of Bourbon / or is otherwise period for the events?

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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Cap-a-pie »

I would seriously suggest you take a look at the work A.S.H is doing, these are really stunning. Had a real closeup look at a nice red brig he had last year. The workmanship in it is fantastic both inside and out. As a previous post said, he's at TORM and generally has these one or two of these with him.
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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Friesian »

Mark T wrote:
Friesian wrote:A lot of the images (though not all ) can be found in 'The Knights Of Rhodes' by Elias Kollias ISBN 960-213-242-6 re-printed in 2003

Hope this helps http://www.amazon.co.uk/Knights-Rhodes- ... 607&sr=1-1
It sure does - the brigandine with sleeves is clearly on the cover! So was that image in the series definitely done by The Cardinel of Bourbon / or is otherwise period for the events?
Not done by him personally but by his master illuminator , 1483

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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Mark T »

Fresian, Thanks very much for that - that's really helpful. For those who are interested, the thread at MyArmoury about brigandines with sleeves can be found here: http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic ... 872#187872

Cheers,
Mark T

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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Steve Churchill »

Well I am planning to be at TORM on Saturday so I will make a point of checking ASH out, and White Rose if they are there - now to see how much my wife will permit me to spend :-)

<<Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?
by Cap-a-pie » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:39 pm

I would seriously suggest you take a look at the work A.S.H is doing, these are really stunning. Had a real closeup look at a nice red brig he had last year. The workmanship in it is fantastic both inside and out. As a previous post said, he's at TORM and generally has these one or two of these with him.>>

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Re: Steel Mastery Brigandine's?

Post by Laffin Jon Terris »

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:What is an "archer's brig"?
Would this be like the "archers falchion"?
I thought a brig was a brig and that any differences would be down to regional or financial influences, not dependent upon military task.
I struggle to visualise some vintner holding back a sword/jack/brig/knee cops on account of the recipient not being an archer ("Over there for your man-at-arms kit soldier!")
I am personally of the opinion that the "archers brig" is an inaccurate term for an inaccurate item.

Steve at White Rose loosely based it on images in the Beachamp Pageant that could just as easily be breastplates (they don't actually any kind of opening-let alone side openings).

Just like the naming of "burgundian" tents (and the cartwheel roof system) this has been accepted as "gospel" and perpetuated as such.

The only justification for calling it an "archers" brig is that the straps are supposedly out of the way making the archers life easier. Strange how we never see "archers doublets" though isn't it :devil:

Historical examples of side opening brigs don't seem to appear until the 16th century, normally with considerably smaller plates.

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