"Marching" Music

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Zachos
Posts: 424
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:34 pm

"Marching" Music

Postby Zachos » Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:24 pm

So anyway, I've been watching Sharpe (Christmas present to myself). Now my Captain and Buddy (same person) used to be a napoleonic re-enactor, so I don't need anyone to tell me whats inaccurate about it, because we've already talked about it. What I love though, is the way that the music forms a big part of the camp life and so on, particularly while marching. Does anyone have any sources for 15th century songs that could be used as marching songs (I know they didn't march the way we think of as marching)? I'd just love to add that kind of thing to an event.

Cheers

Zac


Slowly realizing just how far is still to go.

User avatar
Tamsin Lewis
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:55 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Tamsin Lewis » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:41 pm

I guess some of the carols like Nova Nova would work well for marching.
Or Bring us in good ale?
Both of these are rhythmic with lots of verses...
Are you looking for English songs or will anything do?



Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:18 am

There are references to Swiss troops being accompanied to war by bands but not what was played. I have found only two references specifically one for the Te Deum and the other for Salve Regina, the former to be sung following the victory at Agincourt the other by French troops at Orleans. I also have been laid to understand that "Happy Talk" by Captain Sensible was a popular choice.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

User avatar
Sir Thomas Hylton
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 10:40 am
Location: NR Burton upon Trent
Contact:

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Sir Thomas Hylton » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:00 am

Monty Python have a similar one ..lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRB45Jv6lW8&NR=1 Pie Jesu Domine, dona eis requiem (Ritter der Kokosnuss) :crazy:


Or of course simply cue an entire Queen back catalogue for any battle.

Good King Rat anyone... perfect for EdwardIV

My Vote is for Speed the plough... :twisted: Nice bit of Morris Madness.



User avatar
Zachos
Posts: 424
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:34 pm

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Zachos » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:12 am

Tamsin Lewis wrote:I guess some of the carols like Nova Nova would work well for marching.
Or Bring us in good ale?
Both of these are rhythmic with lots of verses...
Are you looking for English songs or will anything do?


We're a company from the calais garrison circa 1470, so french tunes would probably work as well. Are there books which contain these songs of which you speak?


Slowly realizing just how far is still to go.

User avatar
Tamsin Lewis
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:55 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Tamsin Lewis » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:08 am

The easiest source for 15thC English songs both sacred and secular is the Musica Britannica edition of Medieval Carols. This has more than 100 songs, some complicated and some simple. Some with a good rhythmic single melody line that would be good to march to.

I've not seen any evidence of marching songs for soldiers but it would seem a reasonable guess to say that they might sing popular songs.

Bring us in good ale is here http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.co ... od_ale.htm

If you'e using French material as well then you could add in 'L'Homme Arme'



Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:52 am

That's a Mass setting. Any set of carols would be a good place to start, they were not exclusively sung at Christmas and many can be found with rather worldly notions (the Agincort Carol is a good example of this). There are also some really powerful Flemish and Spanish "peasent" songs that might sort you out.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

User avatar
Tamsin Lewis
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:55 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Tamsin Lewis » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:33 am

L'Homme Arme is a mass setting but like Western Wind, is also a popular song on which the mass setting was based.



User avatar
gregory23b
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:46 pm
Location: Gyppeswyk, Suffolk

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby gregory23b » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:59 pm

"L'Homme Arme"

Or as our old Captain, Paul Thompson used to call it "that "Lomba, Lomba" song"


middle english dictionary

Isabela on G23b "...somehow more approachable in real life"

http://medievalcolours.blogspot.com

"I know my place." Alice the Huswyf

User avatar
Zachos
Posts: 424
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:34 pm

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Zachos » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:10 pm

Thanks guys. I might just be able to persuade my company with that "bring in the ale" song. They certainly like their ale.


Slowly realizing just how far is still to go.

Alexander
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:24 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Alexander » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:37 pm

All the dirty songs from the Carmina Burana... :D



User avatar
Tamsin Lewis
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:55 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Tamsin Lewis » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:45 pm

All the dirty songs from the Carmina Burana...

But not in the 15thC as they're too old and from the wrong area.



User avatar
craig1459
Post Centurion
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:06 am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby craig1459 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:53 am

The Cutty Wren


die Behmen hinder iren bafosen ... stunden vest wie die mauren

User avatar
Tamsin Lewis
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:55 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Tamsin Lewis » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:39 am

The Cutty Wren


Depends what period you want it for.
Although this is said to refer to the Peasants' revolt, there are no surviving words let alone a tune for it before the 18thC. The danger of using folk songs for reenacting earlier periods is that so many of them come from transcriptions done in the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries.



Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:39 am

Unless you have 300 year olds the Carmina Burania would be somewhat out of fashion, but the songs, or at least the languages they were composed in come from a range of countires, from Scotland to Hungary, including the various varients of medieval French and Italian. But as we don't know what would have been sung for sure I would hesitate to say that it would have been altogether unlikely.
Summer Ic Cummen continued, in various guises, to be popular from the 11th century to the start of the 15th.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:42 am

(But then the English were known for both the quality of their choral work and its relative orthodoxy, they didn't like that new fangled stuff, the lyrics didn't maen anything, it wasn't like the real songs they had when they were young, its all just noise and bad words...)


Nothing changes.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

User avatar
Tamsin Lewis
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:55 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Tamsin Lewis » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:54 am

Summer Ic Cummen continued, in various guises, to be popular from the 11th century to the start of the 15th.


What's your evidence for this? As far as I know, it appears in only one manuscript source, in Reading. I haven't seen references to it elsewhere but am very happy to be corrected.

Sorry - I'm being stupidly pedantic here.



User avatar
narvek
Posts: 456
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:55 am
Location: Prague, Czech Rep.
Contact:

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby narvek » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:41 pm

Somehow I can't imagine singing Summer Ic Cummen on march. The Ale song is much more usable :thumbup:


Eurototty reporting in for duty!

Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:41 pm

Chaucer mentions it being sung during the ordination of a lord mayor of London at that was in the 1380's. Its also clear that the song is well regarded as "traditional" but somewhat uncooth and vulgar compared to what was sung in court (mostly French).


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

User avatar
Tamsin Lewis
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:55 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Tamsin Lewis » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:31 pm

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:Chaucer mentions it being sung during the ordination of a lord mayor of London at that was in the 1380's. Its also clear that the song is well regarded as "traditional" but somewhat uncooth and vulgar compared to what was sung in court (mostly French).

Thanks for this, Marcus - I hadn't come across the Chaucer reference. Where does it occur?
[There are so few identifiable songs in Chaucer: Angelus ad virginem, alma redemptoris mater, 'my lief is faren in londe' are the only one's I'd known about with surviving music...]
Agree about the social distinctions between French song and vernacular.



Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:57 pm

Sorry I ebayed the biography of Chaucer in which the refernece occours over Christmas. (Actually my wife did, I'm crap at it.)


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Re: "Marching" Music

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:05 pm

I've just re-read your fisrt post and realised that you are commenting upon all the music mentioned in the canterbury Tales.
Summer is... was mentioned in a report that Chaucer was writing for The Duke of Lancaster and Richard II in his role as a warden of London and the mint. I'm sure that you well know that writing dirty stories and translating French poems was the least of his courtly duties. Although we regard him as the father of English (vernacular) literature at the time he was regarded as being a bloody good courtier and dogsbody.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!


Return to “1100-1500”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests