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Re: History, there's quite a lot of it.

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:48 pm
by Grymm
Pelican wrote:Lincoln greens etc were done by using woad and weld over the top
The current thinking is it's a mistranslation of 'Lincoln grain' and it was actually a vivid RED from dying with kermes beetles(scale insect really) and not in anyway green.

Re: History, there's quite a lot of it.

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:40 pm
by gregory23b
"I've yet to find evidence that they actually did this but just a few onion skins will produce very bright shades of yellow."

Onion skins were proscribed in town dyeing, apparently, ie they were not seen as professional dyestuffs.

Re the Lincoln Green/greyn, a similar misuse is Scarlet, ie the scarlet of Will Scarlet, oft used as red, when scarlet is a type of fabric and can sometimes be a colour of the same, from the same red as the kermes or another colour completely.

The names of cloth and their colours can cause a lot of head scratching, eg russet, both a colour and a type of cloth, so you could have a black or green russet for example.

Re: History, there's quite a lot of it.

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:35 pm
by Pelican
Thanks Grymm sorry was on a bit of a "go slow" then. None the less, woad and yellow will create a green, probably safer just calling it... "green", perhaps a simple concept that our ancestors weren't too fond of!

Gregory - so I take it that would mean they knew it would work, but it wasn't commerically practiced? So maybe someone working with wool in their own home might use onion skins as a free way of obtaining colour, rather than any more expensive option of buying/purposefully growing dyestuff/taking said wool to be dyed?

Black Pear - about two hours for the mustard yellow, not even that for the "second running" of the nice soft but still very yellow-yellow. Sort of custardy. Good thing with onion skins is they don't require a mordant so there's no messing about collecting urine to make your colour stick! (Perhaps I could have worded that better)

Re: History, there's quite a lot of it.

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:04 pm
by Black Pear
I prefer nicely faded and understated colours anyway. It's not because I am only poor and resent the highborn and their posh clothes. It isn't.
Mellow yellows, nice.

Re: History, there's quite a lot of it.

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:52 pm
by Marcus Woodhouse
Although red was a colour beloved by the commons and one they were specifically allowed by law to wear.

Re: History, there's quite a lot of it.

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:30 pm
by Colin Middleton
gregory23b wrote:The names of cloth and their colours can cause a lot of head scratching, eg russet, both a colour and a type of cloth, so you could have a black or green russet for example.
It was the cloth of gold in the King's colours (murray and blue) that REALLY caused me some head scratching. :roll:

Pelican,
I suspect so, but remember that if you're caught dying your own wool, you could face some crippeling fines from the local guilds. I suspect that the effort and risk make it not worthwile for most people.

Re: History, there's quite a lot of it.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:54 pm
by Sir Edmund Mortimer
Black dye;
made by oak gall, human urine, blackberry leaves and lime !!!!

Re: History, there's quite a lot of it.

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:47 am
by Marcus Woodhouse
Having spent the day at the British Musuem I am going to agree with the original poster, there is a lot of history.

Re: History, there's quite a lot of it.

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:31 pm
by Pelican
Sir Edmund ,not sure of it's historical correctness but an iron mordant and ivy leaves will also produce what I could only describe as a "dirty black". Without the iron mordant though it is liable to just be more flipping yellow if not dyed for long enough :roll: