Haubergeon/voiders

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Darren Mac
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Haubergeon/voiders

Post by Darren Mac »

So, the cross-over period... I have ssecond quarter 14C kit with coat or plates over maille haubergeon. To keep the inner elbow protected, my maille arms extend to below the elbow which makes it very awkward to fully close the lower canons. They are connected to the elbows so I cannot have the maille sleeve over the lower canon. I know that the later period had combatents with maille voiders to protect the armour gaps. My question is, would there have been a cross-over/development with this part of the armour in that would it have been possible that a knight may have worn a much shorter-sleeved maille shirt and voiders to protect the inner elbow? This would protect teh inner elbow and minimise all the guff that has to be tucked into the lower canon.
Darren Macdonald
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Zachos
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Post by Zachos »

Voiders only really happened with certain armours, certainly not all. "Italian" style harnesses were worn with maille shirts under the pauldrons but above the vambraces, and the wings of the arms protected the inner elbow, making voiders un needed. Voiders were mostly used with Floating articulations as they were a lot more open at the elbow.
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Darren Mac
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Post by Darren Mac »

Zachos wrote:Voiders only really happened with certain armours, certainly not all. "Italian" style harnesses were worn with maille shirts under the pauldrons but above the vambraces, and the wings of the arms protected the inner elbow, making voiders un needed. Voiders were mostly used with Floating articulations as they were a lot more open at the elbow.
Cheers Zachos. So with my early/mid 14th arms with small circular discs on the couters, should I keep my maille shirt sleeves long enough to reach the lower canon of the arm? Obviously this period kit leaves the inner elbow and inner upper arm exposed. It's just a pain in the harris trying to squeeze my aketon and maille sleeves in the arm. Perhaps my arms have been made too tight?
Darren Macdonald
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narvek
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Post by narvek »

Or maybe you should not have that many plates on you for mid 14th century:)
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Darren Mac
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Post by Darren Mac »

No, I reckon I'm good for the period mate...
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Zachos
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Post by Zachos »

Early/mid 14th century arms should be mostly maille with the smallest amount of plate in the form of a vambrace or rerebrace. Articulated arms are not in until about 1370 as far as I'm aware.

I assume you're talking about something along these lines:

http://www.man.poznan.pl/~ritter/Wierus ... .php?nr=41

In which case I would probably suggest trimming the maille so that it is mid bisep and wearing it under the spaulder but on top of the vambrace.

http://wolna.kompania.freshsite.pl/caso ... .php?nr=85

shows what it would look like before the spaulder goes on.
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Voiders.

Post by Stuart Quayle »

Hi Darren Mac

I have asked a good friend who used to work at the Royal Armouries as a curator and he tells me that there is really only evidence for voiders stitched onto an arming doublet to protect the armpits/ inner arm from about 1430 (or possibly later).

Plenty of evidence for maille skirts, full sleeves, hoods, mantles, maille gloves etc. Just not voiders at mid 1300's.

I think Zachos has got it just about right. Trim your haubergeon sleeves to upper bicep to allow your arm canons to fit over the sleeves of your aketon unhindered.

At 1350 the inner crease of your elbow should simply be protected by the rondel of your elbow cop and by the padded aketon itself.

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Darren Mac
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Post by Darren Mac »

Zachos wrote:Early/mid 14th century arms should be mostly maille with the smallest amount of plate in the form of a vambrace or rerebrace. Articulated arms are not in until about 1370 as far as I'm aware.

I assume you're talking about something along these lines:

http://www.man.poznan.pl/~ritter/Wierus ... .php?nr=41
Bit earlier than that, but not by much Zachos (1350?). S'pose a pic would help...ignore the pants maille mitts, they've been replaced
Attachments
SI06_0003_054.jpg
pauldron.jpg
upper_lowerCanon.jpg
Darren Macdonald
Paupere Commilitone de Temple Salomonique
http://www.macdonaldphotography.co.uk

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Darren Mac
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Post by Darren Mac »

Zachos wrote:
...n which case I would probably suggest trimming the maille so that it is mid bisep and wearing it under the spaulder but on top of the vambrace.

http://wolna.kompania.freshsite.pl/caso ... .php?nr=85

shows what it would look like before the spaulder goes on.


Lovin this idea, would it work with the kit above etc...?
Darren Macdonald
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http://www.macdonaldphotography.co.uk

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narvek
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Post by narvek »

Even in the 1330 the most common form was maille with mittens. Your kit is nearing the 1370's.
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Zachos
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Post by Zachos »

Its difficult to say. I've not done too much research into that period, but I'm not sure the articulated arms go with the soupcan knees. As far as wearing the sleeves over the vambraces, people have been doing that since forever. Give it a try and post your thoughts (and images) of the results.
Slowly realizing just how far is still to go.

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