Coat of Plates

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caveman101
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Coat of Plates

Postby caveman101 » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:56 pm

hi everyone (first post). A few questions regarding the topic (duh).
1: is it the general concensus that the 'Wisby' pattern coat of plates is okay for someone portraying a knight/man at arms in the C.14th.
2: i know Steel Mastery sell them, has anyone had any experience with them and that product?
3: does anyone know of any other armourers that do them? i have heard that lancasters is developing their own version.

thanks in advance :D



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Ayliffe's Steve
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Postby Ayliffe's Steve » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:18 pm

1 I would say yes, a dozen people with give you 13 different answers though.

2 I have never bought one of their CoPs but I have dealt with them a lot for my SCA kit. I have been told that their CoPs are not suitable for heavy fighting. Certainly as of a month or so ago they were having problems meeting deadlines - do a search on the Armour Archive for more info

3 Lancaster do a CoP, I know nothing about them but the rest of the armour they make is highly recommendable. Marches Armoury do one and my group has 3 of them. 2 of our group who were wearing these were taken off their feet at Tewks by pole and were both fine, they are bomb proof. They are heavy but my wife assures me she can barely feel the weight as it is so well shaped. White Rose do brigs but they are costly (although I am sure they are worth it if you have the money).


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Postby nerf herder » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:58 pm

I have one in production from a new supplier.

Will post a review when I've tried it out.


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Postby Allan Harley » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:22 pm

I have two White Rose brigs - not cheap bit well worth the money


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Postby caveman101 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:45 pm

protection isnt really the aim, more the 'look', i have an excellent cloak and daggerd padded haubogeonvuvufytdx (sp?) for that, anything else is window dressing, although lancasters looks best all round so far. i borrowed a bastard sord of roger at tewks (mine got lost in the post bout a month ago), and it took anything that came at me, and the blade was suprisingly flewable.



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Postby Laffin Jon Terris » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:51 pm

caveman101 wrote:protection isnt really the aim, more the 'look', i have an excellent cloak and daggerd padded haubogeonvuvufytdx (sp?) for that, anything else is window dressing,


We recently discussed this with someone else. Be warned that "just the look" of armour could easily lead to you being hit harder than you would like or the "look-a-likee" armour can bear.

Either that or go around with a warning pasted onto your nice looking but fake COP to avoid misunderstandings!

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Postby Templar Knight » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:11 pm

make your own, its well easy. Heres a link to the best resource of pictures for different styles I have found. http://www.hoashantverk.se/hantverk/hoa ... index.html


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Postby Ayliffe's Steve » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:28 am

I might have misunderstood you but just in case I did not - it is a VERY bad idea to wear something that looks like armour but is not armour!

People will hit it like it is metal (i.e. hard) and will be more horrified that you when you collapse screaming in pain with broken bones.

Obviously I cannot stop you doing anything you want to do but be very careful about going for non functional cosmetic armour.


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Postby caveman101 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:30 pm

nononononono, i didnt mean 'fake', i just meant it didnt have to be 1/2 inch thick!



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Postby Skevmeister » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:37 pm

Actually

There are several types of Wisby, and as to it being appropriate for the 14th Century, well the battle was 1361, so later parts yes. But whether its so widespread, well I don't know.

There is a part of me that says that we make more of it here than we should because, its quite asy to make. Some of the higher quality Wisby finds have more in common with the churburg than they do brig.


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Postby Trading-Dragon » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:59 am

Which ones would these be? I'm extremely keen to find a bit more practical information o torso armour of the period, as I'm just experimentally dishing plates in my spare time.

I am quite convinced that most depictions, of early CoPs are quite knaff...most people just bend strips of iron, they don't dish or raise or use any advanced techniques, which would have been available at the time (look at the helmets!).
A proper CoP should be at least slightly formed and less 'angular'.


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Postby wulfenganck » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:52 am

Trading-Dragon wrote:Which ones would these be? I'm extremely keen to find a bit more practical information o torso armour of the period, as I'm just experimentally dishing plates in my spare time.

I am quite convinced that most depictions, of early CoPs are quite knaff...most people just bend strips of iron, they don't dish or raise or use any advanced techniques, which would have been available at the time (look at the helmets!).
A proper CoP should be at least slightly formed and less 'angular'.
There should be several books on the Churburg collection, here is a later on (2006 I guess): “The Churburg Armoury”, Carlo Paggiarino.
There is a link to the castle itself: http://www.churburg.com/willkommen_engl/index.html#

Her is a site with nice replics of the Wisby armour (at least I think it is nice, 14th ct is not my business): http://www.hoashantverk.se/hantverk/hoas_rustningar/index.html



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Postby Skevmeister » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:15 am

You also want to look at the book

Arms and Armour from the Battle Of Wisby by Bengt Thordeman

This is a primary source document for all the finds at Wisby, and contains pictures, archeaology, history. And is brilliant, I love my copy.

As to your COP, if you look at the book by Carlo, which I have a copy of you will see that cops where raised not dished. Some people cheet by dishing and then welding the two halfs together but you can raise it cold just as effectively.


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Postby Trading-Dragon » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:26 pm

Splendid! Will try to source some copies. Much obliged!


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Postby Darren Mac » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:31 pm

I made a Wisby Pair using the patterns in Arms and Armour from the Battle Of Wisby by Bengt Thordeman. It's great. The plates are attatched to a leather base and the whole thing is covered in red velvet. Be aware though, the measurements given in the source produce an article that will probably be too small. I increased the size of all the plates whilst maintaining the pattern. Got a picture somkewhere I'll dig-out. Took me bloody ages to make


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Postby Skevmeister » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:44 pm

Thats the thing Darren there are so many lovely variations in teh book, it such a shame to see one or two varitaions on the theme.

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Postby Trading-Dragon » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:03 pm

If we could all see the picture, Darren, I'd be ever so grateful. especially of closeups!


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Postby Darren Mac » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:46 pm

Here's a couple of pics, they are really poor quality (which I am, as a pro. phot. embarrassed about - used my phone as no camera to hand!) so please excuse that. The velvet scallops are getting a bit tatty and are in need of repair, but you get the idea.
Attachments
DSC01584.jpg
Coat of Plates laid open with front in view.
DSC01587.jpg
Rear view of coat of plates showing fastening buckle and back pointing. Plates are on the carpet slightly on the p*ss so they dont appear symmetrical, but they are


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Black Pear
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Postby Black Pear » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:31 pm

This link was posted somewhere else here, is it useful?

http://www.hoashantverk.se/hantverk/hoas_rustningar/index.html



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Postby Darren Mac » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:28 pm

New question on this topic.
The armour 1 in the pics above... what evidence do we have about the length of these articles? I know the plates dictate the length of the area that is protected but does the base and covering match that or is it just surmised, based on later contemporary images of similar articles?

Because effigies often show what appears or could possibly be a coat of plates hanging down to mid-thigh, just visible below the hem of a surcoat.

Could these articles feasibly protect the area we are obviously aware of but then have greater length consisting of just material and/or a base?


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Postby Thomas Hayman » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:10 pm

I didn't read the whole thread so forgive me if i missed it, but:

Where is the evidence for Cops being raised and not dished?

I've got Carlo's book an can't see anything that would indicate either method being preferred??

Cops certainly can be dished into shape (not that i'm saying IT WAS DONE THAT WAY) quite readily. I think the thinning a lot of people speak of comes from poor technique.

Please, enlighten me.

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Darren Mac
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Postby Darren Mac » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:14 pm

Excuse my ignorance, but can you explain exactly what you mean by raised or dished. What part of the CoP are you referring to?


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Postby Thomas Hayman » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:19 pm

I understood the comment to relate to knee or elbow cops.

Raising is a technique performed from the outside of the piece that compresses the metal over a form. It makes it fractionally thicker when finished.

Dishing is performed from the inside over an anvil or wooden bowl usually. The metal is thinned as it is worked. With careful hammerwork metal can be pushed to the center of the piece from the edge on an anvil.


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Darren Mac
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Postby Darren Mac » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:20 pm

Ah hah, I think we're referring to Coat Of Plates - CoP


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Postby Darren Mac » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:22 pm

Oop, no. You're right :roll:


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Postby Thomas Hayman » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:22 pm

Skevmeister wrote:
As to your COP, if you look at the book by Carlo, which I have a copy of you will see that cops where raised not dished. Some people cheet by dishing and then welding the two halfs together but you can raise it cold just as effectively.


Alixx


Unless i'm going mad, this comment refers to knee cops?


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Darren Mac
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Postby Darren Mac » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:24 pm

Actually, the thread seems to have been misinterpreted somewhere and has developed into one about cops... :!:


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Postby Darren Mac » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:25 pm

Trading-Dragon wrote:Which ones would these be? I'm extremely keen to find a bit more practical information o torso armour of the period, as I'm just experimentally dishing plates in my spare time.

I am quite convinced that most depictions, of early CoPs are quite knaff...most people just bend strips of iron, they don't dish or raise or use any advanced techniques, which would have been available at the time (look at the helmets!).
A proper CoP should be at least slightly formed and less 'angular'.


Is this where we started thinking cops?


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Postby Thomas Hayman » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:26 pm

Yes, i figured as much but thought i'd prod and see what else we can all learn :-D


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Postby Black Pear » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:13 pm

I can't add much to be honest, but I would be interested in thoughts of how widespread CofP were amongst rank and file spear carrying peasants in the14thC. The sort of bloke stuck on a city's walls or in the gatehouse after the gates are locked. Did these chaps get supplied with their protective stuff?




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