Are these shoes ok?

Moderator: Moderators

Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:48 pm

Thats different as ther are lots of prime evidence material around for women working alongside their husbands and even as widows being given "mystery" satus tp protect their deceaseds buisness.
It's not waht Breezy is after at all.
You could also argue that the reason St. Joan was burnt was because
1. the English were desperate to see her dead,
2. she got caught.
I don't endorse the notion as i think its highly unlikely but maybe other women did it and were so convincing that no-one ever knew, after all it happened in later armies and navies.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

User avatar
Colin Middleton
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2037
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:31 pm
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Postby Colin Middleton » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:39 pm

Don't fret none Breezy. You've done the right thing asking.

You and your group need to discuss what gender roles are. I can think of at least one woman in the Fed who always dresses as a man. I also know some groups who ban cross dressing. It takes all sorts.

As to shoes, these Steel Masters boots look vaguely like Mongol or Persian boots. Possibly Medieval, but not at all European.

As for the £450 armour, well done. However you say most of it is Lancaster's, so it's 'munitions' (that's what he sells, or used to). That means you're not dressing as a knight, more likely your lord has loaned you the armour, so you can claim a lower status that you might have thought.

When you look for boots, I'd trust the list that was posted on the previous page. Failing that, I use the following rules:
* If you can see the edges of the sole, avoid it.
* If the edges of the upper overlap (rather than butt/turn in), avoid it.
* Avoid chrome tanned leather if you can (but this is a lesser rule).

I used to wear Ana's machine stitched shoes under my LA greeves. I'm now wearing one of her hand-made pairs. This particular style fits very tightly into the top of my foot, right into the instep (front of the ankle) and they fit very comfortably under my greeves.

But, like I said, the names on the previous page are leaders in the craft, trust their advice beyond mine.

All the best.


Colin

"May 'Blood, blood, blood' be your motto!"

Image

User avatar
Dave B
Post Knight
Posts: 1737
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:34 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Postby Dave B » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:55 pm

The other thing is the trade off between price and value. I bought a pair of Morgan Hubbard boots about 10 years ago. they've had heavy use for years. at the time they cost about £100 which was a stinging price for me then.

last year they went back to Morgan for a 'service' he put on an new sole and made them look good as new for £26. I've now bought another pair the same and put them away because I think Morgan might have retured before I need another pair.


Find time in every day to look at your life and say; 'Well, it could be worse'

Kurt's uncle Bob.

Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:33 pm

And footwear is much more important, compare how many times you will need to don armour with how many times you'll need to walk around.
Even if it's just the armour your well worshipful Lord has loaned you you will be no rag tag peasent, you'll need to be of a standard that shows how well you are maintained or how you are able to catch the eye of said Lord in order to encourage him to loan you a harness.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

Langley
Post Centurion
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:36 pm
Location: West Midlands

Postby Langley » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:20 pm

They are based in Ukraine. That might tell us something about the style! If they are teh ones I have seen at fiars, the sole seems to be made of rubber for one thing. I have a pair of Kevin Garlik ankle boots. Not quite 100% accurate but the most comfortable things I have ever had on my feet and refuse to wear out although they do need some refurb after 13 seasons. My wife has Morgan's turnshoes which are spot on from the illustrations in the Museum of London books. (The Uni Library should have a copy I think). Major problem is waterproofing - the real thing isn't so another vital purchase is pattens (you own provate floorboards). These keep your shoes dry and warm and you get used to them - Anne is happy to dance in hers. You can wear them even with armour with practice. With your armour you need really good fitting shoes or you are going to get rubbing. Save up - the footwear is the most important piece of kit you will ever buy!



User avatar
Colin Middleton
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2037
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:31 pm
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Postby Colin Middleton » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:52 pm

We've never been able to work out why, but Fox FIGHTS in his. Don't seem to give him any problems, but make sure you get them to fit properly.


Colin

"May 'Blood, blood, blood' be your motto!"

Image

User avatar
Breezy2000uk
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:55 am
Location: York

Postby Breezy2000uk » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:25 pm

(Who's Fox, what does he fight in, and why is this weird?)



Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:08 pm

Fox is a re-enactor who belongs to the Poor knights of Dysmas, he sometimes fights wearing his pattens which are wooden undershoes you strap on, it's weird because no one else does it.
I can't stand them myself but then even at Ludlow Castle in December I don't seem to suffer from cold or wet feet.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

User avatar
matilda
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:52 pm
Location: Oxford
Contact:

Postby matilda » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:19 pm

Carl used to fight in Pattens! (GoW)

We had to scour the tewkesbury battlefield to find the nail that held the leather together - someone found it!

I wear pattens, because the ground was wearing the leather on my shoes (with no heel) away!


Every time I close the door on reality, it comes in through the windows - Jennifer Yane

guthrie
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:54 pm
Location: Polmont-Edinburgh

Postby guthrie » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:47 pm

Aye if pattens don't fit tightly enough you can turn your ankle easily enough- the only reason I havn't yet done so is because I have very flexible leg joints.

ON the subject of women doing mens work, in my group our cook is a woman, but once or twice whoever is playing the lord (usually the cad) will say, "Ahh, her husband has gone out to buy some food/ been killed by marauding scotsmen/ in bed ill". As Marcus said, women worked alongside their husbands a great deal, it was very common for a woman to help her father when she was young (as well of course as helping her mother) eg in weaving. Metalworking, welllllll, you might be stretching it a bit but most groups won't be too bothered, and you can always pretend the big strapping bloke waving the hammer about is your dad or something, although that might not work so well if you are all students. Have a read of whatever you can about medieval society and crafts. Fletching I can easily imagine a woman doing it, especially if you are using the feathers from the bird you had for dinner last night.



X
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am

Postby X » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:12 pm

There were women blacksmiths, at least one woman bellfounder, three girls apprenticed to scriveners... In the fourteenth (I think) century at least one woman surgeon. Women merchants, several of (including one called Agnes in Germany who ran the business for about fifty years after her husband died).

Women quite often took over their husband's business if he died; this was not always what they wanted: in one case, an apprentice sued the widow because she did not carry on the business and thus his education was cut short.

As a woman, you can pretty much pick your craft. The easiest thing is to say your husband is dead and you took over from him, but it's not compulsory. Don't let anyone tell you that women only did cooking and sewing.

You should also remember that these women were craftspeople in their own right; this was not just a hobby, or a game, or something to use up scraps. They were held to the same standards as the men and competed in the same marketplace.

I can probably find more examples if you want.



Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:06 pm

There are plenty of books on the subject as well.
Have a look through the relevent forum om this site for a starter.
If nothing else this should give you every excuse to stop watching the T.V. and get reading for a while.
But please join a group soon especially if you are planning to go along to events and take part, there is no way you want to fork out public liability insurance on your own. And no way anyone will want to let you play fight with them if you are not part of a group so they can feel safe around you.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

User avatar
Frances Perry
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:34 pm
Location: West Yorkshire
Contact:

Postby Frances Perry » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:30 am

X wrote: Don't let anyone tell you that women only did cooking and sewing.



As far as I can tell - NOONE on this forum has said this was the case.

You can tell people information until you are blue in the face, but it is up to the person recieving this information to decide if they want to accept it or not.


http://www.medievalartandwoodcraft.com

“In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use.” Achille Marozzo, 1536

X
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am

Postby X » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:07 pm

Frances Perry wrote:
X wrote: Don't let anyone tell you that women only did cooking and sewing.



As far as I can tell - NOONE on this forum has said this was the case.

quote]

And I don't believe that I ever implied that they had. However, this thread, on this forum, is not the entire re-enactment community. But judging by the number of miserable-looking women I've seen at some events, dispiritedly chopping carrots or simply sitting by the fire doing nothing, looking as if they're rather be anywhere else, there's a lot of it going around.

Either there's an awful lot of masochistic women in re-enactment, who carry on doing something they look as if they hate out of choice, or someone's been telling them that cooking, sewing and sitting around is all you're allowed to do if you haven't got a Y-chromosome. Unless they're just naturally miserable - but that's kind of difficult to believe.



User avatar
Jim Smith
Posts: 427
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:23 pm
Location: Stoke on Trent
Contact:

Postby Jim Smith » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:22 pm

I'm afraid I have to agree with X - I have seen quite a few miserable and fed-up looking women at some events. Whether they just don't enjoy re-enactment or they are being blocked from the areas of re-enactment they would enjoy, I couldn't say. Also, it is a common myth that before the twentieth century, a woman's role was simply that of home-maker and servant to husband.


"I hold it to be of great prudence for men to abstain from threats and
insulting words towards any one, for neither the one nor the other in any
way diminishes the strength of the enemy." Niccolo Machiavelli

User avatar
Dave B
Post Knight
Posts: 1737
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:34 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Postby Dave B » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:25 pm

Another thing the victorians have to answer for I fear.


Find time in every day to look at your life and say; 'Well, it could be worse'



Kurt's uncle Bob.

User avatar
Frances Perry
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:34 pm
Location: West Yorkshire
Contact:

Postby Frances Perry » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:31 pm

X wrote: But judging by the number of miserable-looking women I've seen at some events, dispiritedly chopping carrots or simply sitting by the fire doing nothing, looking as if they're rather be anywhere else, there's a lot of it going around.

Either there's an awful lot of masochistic women in re-enactment, who carry on doing something they look as if they hate out of choice, or someone's been telling them that cooking, sewing and sitting around is all you're allowed to do if you haven't got a Y-chromosome. Unless they're just naturally miserable - but that's kind of difficult to believe.


Hmmmm... yes.... well as I said in my previous post - the information is out there for people to act upon - it's not hidden or anything. Depends on how enthused you are about your subject I guess..

Just wish I had a bigger van - after soft kit for a man and woman, plus armour and weapons, plus tent, plus crafts such as sewing, spinning, etc... not much room (or money) for a forge/ metal work/ brewing / other professions!

I agree that whilst men have the obvious battle to attend in re-enactment, and associated professions, if women are not interested in the fighting aspect, then perhaps there is no immediately obvious easy alternative. and finding the resources and information is not always easy if you don't know where to start.

Also - and perhaps a sweeping generalisation, but perhaps not everyone in the same family unit is as enthusiastic about re-enactment? Thus there may be people who look bored, etc... Because they are.

Also, unfortunately due to health and safety, someone's got to be left behind to look after the camp / fire - and I tell you from experience - once everyone else has buggered off enjoying themselves for several hours while you're stuck watching the camp, it's no fun at all.


http://www.medievalartandwoodcraft.com

“In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use.” Achille Marozzo, 1536

User avatar
Dave B
Post Knight
Posts: 1737
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:34 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Postby Dave B » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:36 pm

Really,

I love the excuse to lounge around by the fire all day.

As long as there aren't too many public about to spoil it.

Dave


Find time in every day to look at your life and say; 'Well, it could be worse'



Kurt's uncle Bob.

User avatar
The Methley Archer
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:32 pm
Location: Methley, Leeds, West Riding of Yorkshire
Contact:

Postby The Methley Archer » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:46 pm

But judging by the number of miserable-looking women I've seen at some events, dispiritedly chopping carrots or simply sitting by the fire doing nothing, looking as if they're rather be anywhere else, there's a lot of it going around.


My wife is one of them. She only does it so we can spend time together and keep an eye on the kids because they enjoy it tremendously; if i said this weekend is cancelled my wife would be overjoyed :D but the girls would lynch me :shock:


Daughters are a fathers punishment for being a man

User avatar
Frances Perry
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:34 pm
Location: West Yorkshire
Contact:

Postby Frances Perry » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:52 pm

Najjers caught between a rock and a hard place. eh? :wink:

Seriously, Paul suffered a season of re-enactment and went about with a face like a slapped *rse before he just confessed he bloody hated it. So much he could have talked to MOPs about, but just couldn't stick the whole concept.

Now he spends his weekends while I'm away doing woodwork, which he loves!


http://www.medievalartandwoodcraft.com

“In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use.” Achille Marozzo, 1536

User avatar
wulfenganck
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:54 am
Location: Seligenstadt, Germany

Postby wulfenganck » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:01 pm

Frances Perry wrote:Najjers caught between a rock and a hard place. eh? :wink:

Seriously, Paul suffered a season of re-enactment and went about with a face like a slapped *rse before he just confessed he bloody hated it. So much he could have talked to MOPs about, but just couldn't stick the whole concept.

Now he spends his weekends while I'm away doing woodwork, which he loves!
Well at least he learned about the pleasure of wearing a shiny auit of plate armour...



User avatar
Frances Perry
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:34 pm
Location: West Yorkshire
Contact:

Postby Frances Perry » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:23 pm

Oh yes, deffo...

and since being photo'd by a newspaper and used as a center image for a West Yorkshire advertising campaign, he claims to be:

'The face and crotch of West Yorkshire' :wink:
Attachments
n509592350_1602996_4165277.jpg


http://www.medievalartandwoodcraft.com

“In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use.” Achille Marozzo, 1536

X
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am

Postby X » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:48 pm

True, some people are just not re-enactors, and never will be, no matter how tight you twist the thumbscrews. Just like some people (like me) will never, even if you made them sit through the entire World Cup, ever be football fans. If these people are doing re-enactment to be with partners, they have my respect for sticking it out, and I hope they get something for themselves in return.

It's the ones who would enjoy it if they were given a chance, that I feel sorry for. There are so many different things to do, whatever your chromosome type, if you look for the evidence.

However, although there isn't some grand conspiracy to hide evidence of people doing interesting things, there might just as well be if you don't know where to look. This doesn't just apply to historical stuff: it applies to any information (or things). If you don't know where, or how, to find something, it might as well not exist (this applies to socks as well as information - or do people really believe in the Eater of Socks?). And if you don't know something exists, why would you look for it? Finding information is sometimes not as much about 'being enthused' as it is about having a certain basic level of knowledge to get you started in the right direction.

And this isn't counting the instances where evidence is suppressed or ignored in order to fit someone else's preferences.

Regarding camp-watching, I've done it too - although I have to say my group never leaves anyone on their own for 'hours'. The longest time anyone is left on their own is for the duration of a battle - and even that doesn't tend to happen now, as we have more than one non-battle person. But there is always plenty to do: kerchiefs and food-covers to hem, tent-pegs to make, wool to card and spin, letters to write, games to play, wood to chop, arrows to fletch, washing-up to avoid, and so on, and on, and on - depending on your inclination.

Sometimes (with most of the group and preferably most of the public) out of the way, camp-watch can be a nice, peaceful time to get on with whatever project you're working on, instead of some kind of unappetizing cross between solitary confinement and internal exile.

Besides, the Devil makes work for idle hands....



User avatar
Fox
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2652
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:27 pm
Location: Cheshire

Postby Fox » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:56 pm

X wrote:Besides, the Devil makes work for idle hands....


Has this conversation moved from shoes to w@nking?



User avatar
Frances Perry
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:34 pm
Location: West Yorkshire
Contact:

Postby Frances Perry » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:20 pm

Has this conversation moved from shoes to w@nking?



:lol: :lol: :lol: Brilliant! :lol: :lol: :lol:

.... and so the circle is complete....


http://www.medievalartandwoodcraft.com

“In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use.” Achille Marozzo, 1536

GuyDeDinan
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:53 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Postby GuyDeDinan » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:41 pm

We certainly have a split between those who have no problem dealing with the public and those who just want to get on with the pageant and research. As for the female combat question, again not a problem as we rarely do public events, and I noticed one lady beating the crap out of several of our more experienced fighters the other weekend.


SCA Thamesreach (London) - www.thamesreach.org

Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:54 am

My wife has just re-entered re-enactment-she used to enjoy ACW but mainly for the beautiful dresses. She enjoys the craic with others in the group and (most) other re-enactors but is very self concious about her lack of knowledge (even though she knows a great deal as she makes my kit and the rest of the families as well.)
The solution when we were doing ACW was for her to dress as expensively as she could get away with and sit with a fan looking haughty and important whenever MOP were around. She wasn't very good at it a add as she tends to laugh too much.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

User avatar
Colin Middleton
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2037
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:31 pm
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Postby Colin Middleton » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:29 pm

My wife has a similarly low oppinion of her knowledge, though she knows more about clothes than anyone else in our group. On the other hand, she's quite capable of making it up, she just worries that she'll meet someone who know what they're talking about!


Colin

"May 'Blood, blood, blood' be your motto!"

Image

Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:42 pm

(So do I.) :oops:


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

User avatar
paul bennett
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:56 pm
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Postby paul bennett » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:29 pm

If there was one person I didnt want to see that photo, it was Wolfgang Ritter. He will run straight to Dreynshlag and tell Enzi. My life is over. :cry:


http://www.historicarts.co.uk
Bespoke and off-the-shelf furniture, games and weaponry for living history


Return to “1100-1500”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests