Hair Dye

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Theotherone
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Hair Dye

Postby Theotherone » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:34 pm

Came across a mention of 14th women commiting the sin of vanity by dyeing their hair (along with plucking the hairline and eyebrows and using cosmetics)

What would they have used and what kind of colours would they have got?


Because there would have to be three of them.

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Brother Ranulf
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Postby Brother Ranulf » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:46 pm

In 12th century sources, "older women dyed their hair when it turned grey" (Giraldus Cambrensis -he was speaking of Anglo-Norman ladies). Ladies used white powder and vermilion on their faces - Guillaume de Lorris (Roman de la Rose) does not complain about this, but he warns men not to follow their example:

"Do not paint yourself or use cosmetics; that is for women only, or for men of bad renown (!!!!!!!!!)."

:shock: [Here follows nightmarish vision of Geoffrey de Mandeville in eye-liner and black lipstick . . .]

The hero of one romance, Cercamon, remarked about a lady:

"Yes, and she is not painted up." (Poesies)

So war paint for ladies was not a new thing in the 14th century . . .
Last edited by Brother Ranulf on Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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lidimy
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Postby lidimy » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:56 pm

Brother Ranulf wrote:
So war paint for ladies was not a new thing in the 14th century . . .


That's what my mum calls it too :lol:

I didn't realise that white face powder was so early, tis interesting.

I vaguely recall (I am as sourceless as ever) that Italian women tried to bleach their hair with lemon juice?


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Theotherone
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Postby Theotherone » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:08 pm

I wasn't so much surprised by them painting and plucking, it was the dyeing that interested me. I'd read about "hair peices" being found that are assumed to have suplimented less than luxurious locks as the hair started to show more, but I'd never really thought of them altering the colour...


Because there would have to be three of them.

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sally
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Postby sally » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:08 pm

get thee hence to a library and borrow a copy of my book :lol: I wrote it with reenactors in mind :lol:



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Brother Ranulf
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Postby Brother Ranulf » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:09 pm

An interesting phrase is found in the 14th century Le Manuel des pechez of de Wadington:

"ki ad sa face coluré [...] De blanket ou de rovencel" - who had her face coloured with blanket (white powder) or rovencel (rouge).

Le Manuel is a list of vices, sins and iniquities, so make-up was certainly frowned upon at that time.


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"Patres nostri et nos hanc insulam in brevi edomuimus in brevi nostris subdidimus legibus, nostris obsequiis mancipavimus" - Walter Espec 1138

Theotherone
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Postby Theotherone » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:10 pm

sally wrote:get thee hence to a library and borrow a copy of my book :lol: I wrote it with reenactors in mind :lol:


It's on my Xmas list already, but this was one of the want to know now things that keep intruding when you're doing other things...


Because there would have to be three of them.

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sally
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Postby sally » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:10 pm

yep, it seems you could expect to be asked in confession whether you had painted recently. If your argument was you did it to stop your husband looking at other women, apparently it was ok



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Brother Ranulf
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Postby Brother Ranulf » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:54 pm

Just came across part of a 13th century recipe for hair dye (called esteint or estain in Anglo-Norman French):

Dirai vous une laveure, Esteint, ke a cheveus bien dure - "specify/prescribe a bowl of washing-liquid, esteint, which lasts well on hair"

This is in a medical text - as a remedy!!!

Sadly, I do not have the complete recipe.
Last edited by Brother Ranulf on Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Postby lidimy » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:58 pm

Brother Ranulf wrote:Just came across part of a 13th century recipe for hair dye (called esteint or estain in Anglo-Norman French):

Dirai vous une laveure, Esteint, ke a cheveus bien dure - "specify a bowl of washing-liquid, esteint, which lasts well on hair"

This is in a medical text - as a remedy!!!

Sadly, I do not have the complete recipe.


Look on the back of a persil bottle?




Sorry :oops:


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Postby m300572 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:06 pm

sally wrote:get thee hence to a library and borrow a copy of my book :lol: I wrote it with reenactors in mind :lol:


Shouldn't that be "Hie thee hence to a booksellers and order a copy of my book to purchase" Sally? :lol:


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Postby Cat » Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:25 pm

As sourceless as Lidi's lemon juice bleach (I recall reading that Italiano ladies applied it to their hair, then wore a wide-brimmed crownless hat so's they could spread out their hair over the brim, and go and sit in the sun a while.), I've read a version where rhubarb root is steeped and the juice is used as a bleach. Quite toxic tho- oxalic acid.
I have to wonder whether the Crusaders would have brought back Lawsonia powder (henna), and also recall the darkening effects of walnut juice cropping up in a (very) Grimm fairy-tale. All conjecture, but all quite plausible. As are chamomile rinse to brighten blondeness and rosemary rinse to cheer up brunette hair.


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lidimy
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Postby lidimy » Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:36 pm

[cuba]Well while we're talking about natural hair products, I can only recommend pure honey as a fantastic conditioner! :oops: a little squirt, mix it with your normal conditioner and then cover your hair and leave to soak for a good few minutes....

gets rid of frizziness after just a few uses, and neither does it make your hair sticky. [/cuba]


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Colin Middleton
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Postby Colin Middleton » Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:00 pm

sally wrote:yep, it seems you could expect to be asked in confession whether you had painted recently. If your argument was you did it to stop your husband looking at other women, apparently it was ok


So Sally, have you painted your face recently and if so why? :twisted:

Seriously, Sally's book is good. My wife has been making serveal of the preperations at our shows over the last couple of years, with varying degrees of success from okay to brilliant. She's even using the cold cream and lip paint at home in place of commercial products (though the lip paint doesn't colour the lips much).

There's a bit it the TROTULA about hair dye, if you can track down a copy.

Apparently, the fashion was for blonde hair and Diane keeps telling me about caustic compounds used to bleach it (and more compounds used to treate the burns!).

All the best.


Colin

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