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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:41 pm
by Phil the Grips
Who said we were doing English history? or even need to? Just looking for a provenance for a foot "melee" as people expressed an interest.

The French evidence that people went/aspire to doesn't fit their expectations (or is impractical to many- not that many horsemen with that much cash are available), so go to the Italian, may be even have to bump up the dateline to C16th or even C17th (both of which'd suit me far, far better- I look terrible in hose and fantastic in britches!).

So it seems that if reenactors want to hit each other on foot with sticks in "C15th England"then they can't as there is no provenance- unless they claim to be in Italy, and why not? After all Axis troops, ACW reenactors, Vikings, Hussites etc etc do demonstrations in England.

Still be cool though...

Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:01 pm
by behanner
Philip, I love your answer, because you don't make excuses. Too often people all want to pretend that one thing was something from somewhere else as well. You have an awesomely right attitude. Go and do what your evidence leads you to instead of trying to pretend your evidence matches what your doing.

Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:10 pm
by Phil the Grips
Thankyou :)

If I can now persuade enough people to get C17th kit and a willing market square then I can get a load of sticks and jangly bells easily...

Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:00 pm
by narvek
Just came back from 14C one :P
many disciplines, ladies as judges, courtoasy (as in well-behaving) and all that.

Interested in pictures?

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:12 pm
by Zachos
@narvek: Very much interested in pictures.

@all: So we may have to bring it back to earlier times, or make it a small part of a larger tournament. I'll chat to people and find out more.

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:44 pm
by narvek
Zachos: not really a club turnee, but on foot. 4 tribunes for ladies, many disciplines (light armoured, heavy armoured, duels of nobles, duels of flags, crowns, and big meléé.

Main tribune:Image
display of noble's shields:Image
ladies dancing:Image
noble's duels:Image

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:59 am
by narvek

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:24 pm
by Marcus Woodhouse
By God that looked like some fierce dancing!

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:41 pm
by narvek
The noble in red and gold used to work as SWAT :lol:

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:03 am
by Phil the Grips
Just had the nod that nylon wasters suitable for use as "whalebone" swords are now a lot easier to get in the UK here-

Now plenty of us have jacks, and helmets so who wants to put on the Italian accent and find somewhere to play with them en masse?

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:02 pm
by Nigel
mmmm nice idea

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:30 pm
by craig1459
There are a couple of tourneys described in the Travels of Leo Rozmital (1466/67) - jousting followed by wrestling, but no foot tourneys. Interestingly Edward IV wouldnt permit his champions to fight the Bohemians :D

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:08 am
by Zachos
It seems wierd that the English, who loved to fight on foot, did not have tournaments in the same manner. Not that it matters too much, as we can all just put on silly accents. I'll be watching that site, waiting for a price on those wasters.

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:29 am
by Phil the Grips
Roughly £90 apiece is the latest price

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:44 am
by GuyDeDinan

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:53 am
by Phil the Grips
They miss out the "on horseback" bit , which is the important distinction and essence of where the debate lies.

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:18 am
by GuyDeDinan
Bit expensive, horses.

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:25 am
by Phil the Grips
Indeed- so not only was it not done in the past, in England, on foot but also most people nowadays can't afford the horse and don't ride so, once again we are back to being Italian and on foot if we are to maintain any pretence of historical accuracy.

To do otherwise would be to claim to be reenacting Formula 1 racing by running really fast.

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:08 pm
by Zachos
Well, if we set a date within the next *insert timescale here*, in which people can get the kit to the required standard, and find a place to do it, then we can have an italian behourd.

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:33 pm
by George P.
I presume leather armour would be allowed?

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:50 pm
by Zachos
As long as it was good quality and in keeping with your station. Remember, if you're a knight you'll have really nice decorated leather tournament armour (if it is leather) and if you're poorer you might not be ale to afford more than one lot of armour, so metal might be more authentic.

Still haven't been able to look into it fully though, so any research anyone can do would be great.