Groups in Essex?

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Paul8v
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Groups in Essex?

Postby Paul8v » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:03 pm

Hi there, just been told about this forum so I thought I'd have a little look. I was just wondering if anyone knew of any re-enactment groups in the Essex area? I'm currently in the Sealed Knot but I'd like to do some medieval re-enactment too.

Many thanks

Paul



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Brother Ranulf
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Postby Brother Ranulf » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:31 pm

What period of medieval are you thinking of? There is a world of difference between say 12th and 15th century . . .


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Allan Harley
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Postby Allan Harley » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:06 pm

If its 15th century check out the WOTR FED website -
http://www.et-tu.com/wotrf1/cgi-bin/index.cgi.

Also suggets you go alomg to a training session or event with some
group(s) before committting because each group is unique. But some favour LH and some fighting


Away from the battle all are soldiers.

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Jim
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Postby Jim » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:09 pm

You're not the first person to venture out from the SK to Medieval. I think late c15th is the most popular period, Wars of the Roses and so on, with lots of variety in weapons and armour, plus early bang-sticks, cannon, longbows, crossbows, endless types of pole-arms & swords etc. Armour can be anything from padded jackets through maille to full plate. Hope you're ready for a bit of the ol' rough-and-tumble! :wink:

Not sure what the nearest group would be though, soz.


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Edmund the Marshal
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The Swords of Chivalry

Postby Edmund the Marshal » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:20 pm

Hi Paul,

I've PM you with details of our group,

regards

Bob


That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rw5T00TbDA
.
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http://www.swordsofchivalry.co.uk

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Postby Paul8v » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:02 pm

Excellent, thatnks for that 8)



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Annis
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Postby Annis » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:39 pm

Have you tried the Medieval Siege Society?


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Paul8v
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Postby Paul8v » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:13 pm

I did try to contact them but I didn't hear anything back, I don't know if I maybe sent it to the wrong address.
The swords of chivalry one looks good, when's the next event?
I'm going to the east anglian medieval fayre this weekend, is anyone from here going?



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Postby Annis » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:34 pm

'fraid I'll be at an MSS event!


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Postby Bil » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:49 am

PM sent


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- Me, just then.

the real lord duvet

Postby the real lord duvet » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:06 am

we're there and essex based.

look for the cannon. it should be easily found



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Postby Paul8v » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:51 pm

Cool, thanks people 8)

What armour alternatives are there to full plate? I've seen the price of that stuff! I'm thinking more of 14th/15th century, is there a resource somewhere that shows all the different types?
Thanks

Paul



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Postby Bil » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:23 am

Well the alternatives are........

None:- :shock: but you will still need a helm if you want to go on most battlefields these days. and some sort of stury hand and body protection if you want to fight.

Mail:- plenty of flexability but not quite as flash :D (padding also required to prevent mail shaped bruses :lol: )

Pading:- a sturdy jack made from canvas,14 to 20 linin layers and satin lining (authenty) or canvas lots of quilt lining and calico/linin (cheaty).

Modern cheating:- soccer shinpads,motorX padding and sturdy chunks of thick boiled leathe under youre soft kit, you look like you have no armour other than a helm and gauntlets but are reasonably well protected, and very light and manoverable " float like a buttrfly, sting like a bloke swinging a sword :D "
ttfn
Bil


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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:28 pm

I wouldn't fight you though. I like to know where or if i can hit someone. So if I can't see any armour then I wouldn't go anywhere near you omae. And if that meant you hit me, i'd just die and get out of your way.


Are there really re-enactors out there who do what your man is suggesting to the new fella?


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Postby Jim » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:39 pm

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:I wouldn't fight you though. I like to know where or if i can hit someone. So if I can't see any armour then I wouldn't go anywhere near you omae. And if that meant you hit me, i'd just die and get out of your way.


Have to disagree with you there matey. I'll happily fight someone wearing no armour - I'd just make sure I pull my blows enough. Yes this makes things trickier, and yes your opponent may have an advantage, but hey I like a challenge.


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Postby Phil the Grips » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:45 pm

Why would someone be on a battlefield with no armour? For centuries it'd be provided for/by them under law- if they are that poor why are they on the field and not in the fields? Even the poorest provided some arms and armour.

I'd ignore them as they are obviously there to water bear, hold horses or loot the dead.


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Postby the real lord duvet » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:51 pm

i don't wear armour on the battlefield



i carry a gun instead



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Postby Byrthwold » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:39 am

There's a branch of the vikings in essex called Saebert's Folc leader is Dan Ezra heis a member off this forum or I Could PM his e-mail if your interested


Paul H
Saebert's Folc



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Postby Jim » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:08 am

Phil the Grips wrote:Why would someone be on a battlefield with no armour?


You've obviously not been to Tintagel then. :wink:


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Postby Phil the Grips » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:35 am

Nope- for many reasons but that one is a large factor.


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Postby Paul8v » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:03 am

Byrthwold wrote:There's a branch of the vikings in essex called Saebert's Folc leader is Dan Ezra heis a member off this forum or I Could PM his e-mail if your interested


Paul H
Saebert's Folc


I know Dan as he does some sealed knot stuff with the regiment I'm in, a few of us were toying with the idea of vikings as we wouldn't need much kit to do it but I do prefer the later periods. I'll have to have a chat with him next time I see him.



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Postby Laffin Jon Terris » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:45 am

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:I wouldn't fight you though. I like to know where or if i can hit someone. So if I can't see any armour then I wouldn't go anywhere near you omae. And if that meant you hit me, i'd just die and get out of your way.


Are there really re-enactors out there who do what your man is suggesting to the new fella?


Just re-read what Bil said Marcus,

"None:- :shock: but you will still need a helm if you want to go on most battlefields these days. and some sort of sturdy hand and body protection if you want to fight. "


see that little non-smiley face? That would be the "shocked" emoticon, although we talk about it there are still no concrete rules on body protection for combatants at most battles. Next, Bil says you'll need a helmet and "sturdy" hand/body protection.

So he's not really suggesting fighting without some form of armour now is he?

And you can't tell me you've never seen an unarmoured man on the field -normally wearing a McHalford tartan blanket round his waist (and this year an English civil war pot helmet too :roll: )

When I started doing WOTR i did my first seasons fighting in two doublets, a loaned helmet and gauntlets, I had a few bruises at the end of a fight (but I learned to defend pretty quickly :lol: ) I'm sure a lot of people started the same way, are you saying that you feel this is no longer a safe idea?

I totally agree that you should be aware of an opponents armour level before hitting them, but there is no reason to not fight someone just beceause they are in lighter kit.

As Jim says, you can still fight someone who is lightly armoured, you just have to up your game a little, using more control over your shots whilst trying not to lose speed at the same time- harder work I'll grant you but good practice!


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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:42 pm

Well i still wouldn't. Please note that i said they could fight me, I'd just quickly die. I pull evry hit, even against full plate, but accidents can happen, people can slip, come in to fast and i don't want to have someones death or injury on my concience. And given that gun crews are normally reagrded as having "non com"status you'd get away with no armour so thats just a remark i'll let ride over me.


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Postby Jim » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:54 pm

Whether someone is armoured or not isn't a black/white thing, but a sliding scale of grey. I've seen people armoured up to the eyeballs still get quite badly hurt, while someone with b**ger all protection walks off the field without a scratch. Likewise, I've seen people with lots of experience cause injury, and relative newbies take part in battles without hurting anyone at all.

The way I look at it is, if you're not confident that you're good enough with your weapon to avoid causing injury by ineptitude, even to people with zero armour, then you shouldn't be on the field. Conversely, you should have a healthy appreciation for the fact that sooner or later, you will hurt someone by accident, no matter what armour they're wearing. It might take years to happen, but statistically, happen it will. Best be realistic about it, accept its inevitability, and try your best to keep it to a minimum.

I fight unarmoured people all the time, who wear no protection save a pair of stout gloves, every week when I train with the Hounds of the Morrigan. If I can fight them safely in the training hall, there's no reason why I can't do so on the field.


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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:43 pm

Jim you are mistakeningly thinking that you are talking with someone who cares about your view on this. If you want to fight someone in no armour fine, I'm not and I don't think that makes me unsafe.


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Postby matilda » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:51 pm

I'm with Jim on this one.

You shouldn't (in theory) be hitting that hard regardless.

I'm sure we've all aimed for the armoured bit and missed, in that case your blow shouldn't cause injury, just because you expected armour.

There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to fight unarmoured and armoured people and if thats a problem, perhaps you should train more.

And there is no need to be rude!


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Postby Phil the Grips » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:06 pm

To me it's not just a matter of safety- I often used to take the field in no more than three yards of linen in my time in Regia- it's just not historically accurate in many cases for someone to be there in the lines, on foot with no armour until the C17th (unless the parameter of history calls for an extreme oddity or context)- that's before modern insurance requirements and custom and practice of "jack, hat and hands".

I won't fight them as I often find someone with no or little armour has a tendency to believe themself immortal (they also seem to have a tendency to fight with two short weapons in my experience- further inaccuracy) by leaping around and at me, and I can do far more damage to them accidentally than they can to me since the margin for error is so great and they also tend to be the first to whinge about bruises or being hurt or, conversely, boast about being able to take on tinnies and kill them easily when in fact the reality is that tinnies are hampered markedly by the rules of the game.

Such folk get ignored, or treated as speed bumps, until someone worth the fight appears.


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Postby Carl / Sir Geoffrey » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:47 pm

Laffin Jon Terris wrote: there are still no concrete rules on body protection for combatants at most battles.


I'd have to disagree with you on that one. EMA guidelines currently read:

No Helm - No Gauntlets - No Jack - No Fight

In theory it should be as simple as that. However, we would like to clarify that a jack means padded arms as well as padded body protection.

Phil the Grips wrote: Why would someone be on a battlefield with no armour? For centuries it'd be provided for/by them under law


Phil I'm really surprised to see you write that. I must admit that I am not the best historian in the world and that I probably couldn't tell you what would be authentic and what not. However, I was under the impression (and given some other posts on here I think several other people are as well), that one of the things that makes our battles inauthentic is the unrealistic proportion of clankies to un armoured levy.

Serious question:
What proportion of bill men would have more than a padded jack?

And I have to say that I am with Matilda and Jim on the safety aspect of it. Whatever the historical picture the reality is that as clankies we will come up against combatants who have less armour than we do. If we just ignore them then it looks silly - especially if we are on the crowd line. We need to be able to fight them safely - even if that just means defending ourselves until we can run away, or until we can get a safe shot in.

And that safe shot should be delivered with the right level of power not to cause injury.

I must admit that I really enjoy fighting people I know on the field, whether they are armoured or not, because I know that I can have a good hard, but safe fight with them.

However, I am still willing to fight other people, including those without any armour. I just practice safe delivery of blows.


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Postby Carl / Sir Geoffrey » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:49 pm

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:omae


Genuine question Marcus. I've noticed that you use this acronym fairly regularly, but I have no idea what it means. Please could you enlighten me?

Thanks :-)


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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:32 pm

Its like "brother"- in the sense that monks and trade unionists and masons call each other brother.


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