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Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:06 pm
by StaffordCleggy
Only if you have a swarthy complexion & smell strongly of garlic!!!! :lol:

Mmmmm, garlic. our chef for the weekend is planning a paella......

Bit of a b**ger actually 'cos i was planning to do a jambalaya next weekend at Richmond! :oops:

Are we having a beer at Bosworth then Marcus?

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:44 pm
by Colin Middleton
Marcus Woodhouse wrote:Hmm, does that mean i can justify having a black shirt afterall. just another good reason for portraying an Italian.


Don't see why not. It should go nicely with your cloth of gold doublet and damasced silk velvet gown, right. Just be careful not to weigh yourself down with too much gold jewelery to go with that! :wink:

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:18 am
by Marcus Woodhouse
Is that a subtly worded way of saying no, Colin? Yes to the beer Cleggy, have to be careful though as my wife can't make it along that weekend and i'll have weans to be taking care of-also means that I'll be missing out on the fights, unless you want to start something in the camp (two giants come together in the contest to find which is the shortest badass of them all!)

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:15 pm
by James The Archer
Marcus Woodhouse wrote:i'll have weans to be taking care of-also means that I'll be missing out on the fights, unless you want to start something in the camp (two giants come together in the contest to find which is the shortest badass of them all!)


You or Herr Feld Marshal Von Clegg, Generalissimo of all the armies of Spain, Lord High Admiral of the Western Ocean, Sky Marshal of the Lesser Magellanic Star Cluster & Satan's favourite little Pixie, my money is on Cleggy,as by the time you've fnished with that lot you've forgotten what it was all about :twisted:

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:17 pm
by The Iron Dwarf
ere I eve you know that I may be shorter than Cleggy and after the mountain of chilli I intend to have tommorow evening I dont think anyones ass ( or even donkey ) could compete ;)

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:51 pm
by Marcus Woodhouse
So a threesome it is, yeah baby!

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:49 pm
by Jim
Marcus Woodhouse wrote:So a threesome it is, yeah baby!


Who's running the book?

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:52 pm
by StaffordCleggy
Well, seeing as i have just managed to threaten my alleged 'superior' in the Sales & Marketing Dept. (no, i don't work in there) with being cut into small pieces & then thrown piecemeal out of the nearest window 'cos he repeatedly cocked up my materials order......... :twisted: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:47 pm
by James The Archer
StaffordCleggy wrote:Well, seeing as i have just managed to threaten my alleged 'superior' in the Sales & Marketing Dept. (no, i don't work in there) with being cut into small pieces & then thrown piecemeal out of the nearest window 'cos he repeatedly cocked up my materials order......... :twisted: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

And you left him in one pice ------- you must be getting old :twisted:

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:32 pm
by Marcus Woodhouse
I read just recentally that Owain Tudor was Knighted on account of the fact he "did hold at all times in sight of His Grace, the King (Henry V) upon the point of a spear a squirrals tail which was in being held most lucky by the King" during the Battle of Azincort. Time to dump those fox tails and find some tree rats fellas.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:46 pm
by bournio
Shoot as many grey's as possible guys!
Hang on... is it possible to have a grey squirrel in that period in the Uk?

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:55 pm
by Hobbitstomper
On the black stuff in foxbummery times...

Local black cloth (not sure if it is wool or linen) cost about 12 times as much as (white linen) canvas. Basically, the canvas price in pence is around the Scottish black price in shillings. Fancy imported French black cloth cost 3-4 times as much as the local cloth.

Prices taken form "Changing Values in Medieval Scotland", a book full of Scottish commodity prices.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:49 pm
by guthrie
A book that I purchased last week!
What was your excuse?
Mine was that it has weights and measures in it, and I've since found that it also mentions coal and suchlike, nice to have references for its use to far back.

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:22 pm
by Colin Middleton
Marcus Woodhouse wrote:Is that a subtly worded way of saying no, Colin?


Yes, kind of, but I suspect that you knew that anyway. I'm not your authenti officer, so you make your own decision. I've just known a few people with silk shirts and hosen made of blanket. Silk was much cheaper in Italy than in England, but it was still very expensive.

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:47 pm
by Hobbitstomper
I was just interested. There is very little reliable information on prices unless you do the digging yourself.

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:27 pm
by hazy
In general I think that black shirts are usually wrong- certainly I have never seen a piocture of a black shirt on anyone (with the exception of that picture of the Medici's, who as we all know, were massively rich) therefore, like Colin said, I wouldn't wear a black shirt unless it is silk, and unless you have the rest of the kit to match, including jewels and rings etc! Even then I'd be careful, as the Medici picture does seem to be the only one which shows black shirts (that I've seen at least)

As for the tails on belts, I think its very much a re-enactorism. Like others have said, one person with it may be acceptable, but the sheer numbers of people carrying them at the moment just can't be right.

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:39 pm
by craig1459
Talbot accounts 1401
1 ell of black cloth for the lady 2s
c/w
3 ells of white cloth (blanket) for lining the Lord's gown 8d

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:45 pm
by Colin Middleton
'Cloth' is likley to be wool. If they mean linnen, they usually say as much.

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:15 pm
by Dave B
bournio wrote:Shoot as many grey's as possible guys!
Hang on... is it possible to have a grey squirrel in that period in the Uk?


No such thing as a grey squirrel. Squirrels are red, the fat bushy grey ones are tree-rats.

IIRC eastern grey squirrels are only indigenous to canada, from where they were introduced to the rest of the US and then to the UK in the 1800's.

As far as I can remember the red is the only true european tree squirrel. the Souslik is a close relation of the grey squirrel and has a similar looking coat and was a common medieval fur, so perhaps you could get away with using grey squirrel pelts, but it's a ground squirrel not a tree squirrel so it doesn't have a bushy tail. gray squirrel tails would be wrong.

although Dave the furrier may well be along to correct me shortly.

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:11 pm
by bournio
Dave B... not gonna stop shooting them though!

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:41 pm
by CFarrell
The armies of William Wallace used the fox and wolf tail as a symbol of identification during the Scottish Wars of Independence. Wallace fought under the standard of a Wolf Tail, and eventually all the Scottish skirmishers used it as their symbol and wore one on their belt.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:51 am
by John Waller
CFarrell wrote:The armies of William Wallace used the fox and wolf tail as a symbol of identification during the Scottish Wars of Independence. Wallace fought under the standard of a Wolf Tail, and eventually all the Scottish skirmishers used it as their symbol and wore one on their belt.


Interesting. I have heard the story about the scots tanning the skin of Edward's treasurer and making belts and sporrans from it but not about them using animal tails. Do you have a primary source for this?

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:36 pm
by CFarrell
No sorry, I only know this because its the reason my group (The Swords of Dalriada) wears fox and wolf tails on our belts. Its because we re-enact the Wars of Independence. If you want I'll ask around the older members of the group and try to find a source for you.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:55 pm
by guthrie
Yes please. A primary source would be necessary for such a large claim as this.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:20 pm
by m300572
bournio wrote:Shoot as many grey's as possible guys!
Hang on... is it possible to have a grey squirrel in that period in the Uk?


Depends on the level of pedantry - you can't have Grey Squirrel (S. carolinensis) as its a North American species introduced to Britain. You could, according to Dave of de Clifford, have grey coloured squirrel fur as the S. vulgaris which is the "common" or red squirrel native to Britain and Europe apparently comes in a range of colours from red to black, through grey and grey vair was imported to Britain in the Middle Ages.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:26 pm
by Fox
guthrie wrote:Yes please. A primary source would be necessary for such a large claim as this.


I think I'd accept a credible secondary source, say a respected author in a book where the primary sources are not directly linked to the individual facts.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:33 pm
by Colin Middleton
My wife has been chewing my ear off with some ofthe re-enactorisms that she saw at Bosworth this weekend, so I'm throwing them into the mix for her:

Modern jewelery (faceted stones, clusters of small stones, etc).
Women wearing mens coats.
Women in sleevles kirtles without a gown on (especially if made of linnen).

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:41 pm
by m300572
Wallace fought under the standard of a Wolf Tail, and eventually all the Scottish skirmishers used it as their symbol and wore one on their belt.


ON a "common sense" note - where did all these wolves come from? Even in medieval Scotland the wolf population would, I would guess, be relatively small - most top predators have relatively low populations compared to their prey - and they're not the sort of animal that you can nip out and catch without putting in a fair amount of work. The Wolf Trust reckon that the Highlands at present could support 250-1000 wolves - so a small unit of skirmishers with 1 tail each would pretty much wipe out the population.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:53 pm
by John Waller
m300572 wrote:
Wallace fought under the standard of a Wolf Tail, and eventually all the Scottish skirmishers used it as their symbol and wore one on their belt.


ON a "common sense" note - where did all these wolves come from?


Well you could always import them. Personally I think the idea sounds like nonsense. But if The Swords of Dalriada can provide evidence.....

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:46 pm
by Fox
Colin Middleton wrote:Women in sleevles kirtles without a gown on (especially if made of linnen).


That's a bit more complex. Certainly too many people dress like that, but it's not entirely wrong (we could certainly have long debate about whether it's provenancable or not).
For definitely wrong in that area, how about cloak but no gown?